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/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep / Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep

03-11-2017 , 05:30 PM
Villain1 (sb): Played with him before but only remember that he seems like a losing reg. When I sat at the table, not long ago, he was shortstacked at around $50 and has since doubled up twice (with decent hands).
Villain2 (HJ): Spewy LAG villain, but she has the most chips at the table, around 200BB. There's some history between V1 and V2 where V2 must have sucked out on V1, but that happened before I sat down.
Hero: Newish to table. I'm in my 2nd or 3rd orbit, around 60BB stack.

Preflop: Hero opens UTG to $10 with AcQs. I probably should have opened to $13-$15, I end up getting 4 callers: UTG+2 calls, V2 calls, V1 calls, and BB calls.

Flop ($45): Qc6c5s

Both blinds check and H bets $30, UTG+2 folds, spewy V2 calls, V1 in SB CRAI, BB folds.

Hero ???

It's basically a pot sized bet here. Obviously 65, 66, and 55 are big parts of villains range and maybe some combo draws. I think he needs to sometimes show up with KQ here for this to be a call, but I don't think those hands usually CRAI.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 05:41 PM
Why are you buying in so short?

Having the Ac cuts down his semi-bluff range a ton. On the other hand, it gives you some extra equity when you are behind. Still, unless you see some stone cold bluffs in his rage, I think this is a fold. I ranged him at 66-55,KcJc,KcTc,JcTc,8c7c,65s,4c3c, against which you have 28.6% equity. Pot is about 135 before his shove, so this is almost exactly a PSB, against which you'd need 33.34% equity. Unless you think spewy V2 is going to call with a weak range, it's a fold.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 05:49 PM
First of all, try to put some actual bet and stack sizes so we can analyze the hand better (give better info = get better info). But here goes:

I think you're giving a flop raise way too much credit. I can see him doing this with a lot of draws and weaker Qs. Sure he can show up with 55, 66 and 65 but I don't think it's the only hands he can have here. For what I think is $75 more into what will be a $315 pot (I think but again you didn't really give enough info so I'm kind of guessing) you need 24% equity. With TPTK and the backdoor nut flush draw I'd call it off here. If he was a set, just try to runner-runner the flush.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 05:52 PM
Fold. If I'm reading this correctly, this Villain has raised to $190 ($80 more to you but others cover him) into three live players, two of whom have shown interest in the flop, including the UTG raiser. Regs don't do that with top pair. And he can't have the nut flush draw, since you're blocking the A. Best case scenario, he has some sort of combo draw and you're only slightly ahead. But that's only a small part of his range. More likely he has two pair or a set and you're hurting. The odds are great, but his range here is very strong. Plus, V2 is allowed to have a hand here too.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
For what I think is $75 more into what will be a $315 pot (I think but again you didn't really give enough info so I'm kind of guessing) you need 24% equity.
Not sure where you got that idea. Pot is $45 on the flop. 3x$30 is added, making it $135 before the shove. 60BBs effective = $180, with $10 out pre-flop and $30 OTF, leaving $140 behind for the shove.

If we call, we will be putting in $140 of a $415 pot (assuming V2 folds), meaning that we need 33.7% equity.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Not sure where you got that idea. Pot is $45 on the flop. 3x$30 is added, making it $135 before the shove. 60BBs effective = $180, with $10 out pre-flop and $30 OTF, leaving $140 behind for the shove.

If we call, we will be putting in $140 of a $415 pot (assuming V2 folds), meaning that we need 33.7% equity.
OP, this is why it's helpful to include the dollar amount behind along with the action at each stage of the hand. Otherwise all the responses have to do math. And we'll often get it wrong.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Not sure where you got that idea. Pot is $45 on the flop. 3x$30 is added, making it $135 before the shove. 60BBs effective = $180, with $10 out pre-flop and $30 OTF, leaving $140 behind for the shove.

If we call, we will be putting in $140 of a $415 pot (assuming V2 folds), meaning that we need 33.7% equity.
Hero bet $30 into $45 and only got one caller before the shove. $45+30+30 = $105.

OP said it was "basically a pot size bet here." So I went with $105 total. $105 - $30 =$75.

But again, if OP had posted stack sizes this would be much easier.

Edit: my initial "$315" was wrong even by my count. It should be $285.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 07:21 PM
More pre. Stop buying in short.

As played, call. You have TPTK on a wet board. You started the hand with 60 BBs. GII.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRH
Hero bet $30 into $45 and only got one caller before the shove. $45+30+30 = $105.

OP said it was "basically a pot size bet here." So I went with $105 total. $105 - $30 =$75.

But again, if OP had posted stack sizes this would be much easier.

Edit: my initial "$315" was wrong even by my count. It should be $285.
When you count a pot-sized raise, you have to include the raiser's amount needed to call. That means the pot is actually $135 before the raise.

Also, we know that we started with 60BBs effective, so we could count backwards.

I agree that OP including the amounts to keep us from having to interpolate math would help, though.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 08:35 PM
My bad on not including $ amounts in the OP. The game is capped at $200 buy in or ~67BB, which is why I bought in short. Thanks for the responses. I'll post results tomorrow.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-11-2017 , 09:00 PM
Not a fan of folding 60 bb effective with top top. Stick out in there and suck out against the 2 pair
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-12-2017 , 02:57 PM
Results:
Spoiler:
I called. He had 66 for a set. Did not hit my runner runner. I think the correct action here is villain dependent, villain turned out to be a bit more solid post flop than my memory of him led me to believe.
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote
03-13-2017 , 11:16 AM
With just a $180 stack, I'm opening to 10% (~$18) so that I have a trivial stack off situation postflop with TP. Instead, we've gone ahead and created the trivially small SPR where we'll probably have to stack off, and yet we've given 3 opponents rather terrific 21+ implied odds to stack us.

Anyhoo, as played, the SPR is slightly less than 4 and the board is drawy and someone with a worse hand (such as KQ) could happily stack off. So I just PSB the flop to stack off on the turn. Do we have a bet sizing plan? The $30 bet is going to leave us with an awkward stack for the turn.

Kinda gross spot facing the check/raise at this point. I kinda think whatever we do at this point sucks, but I might lean towards a hero fold if he's unlikely to be doing this with KQ / draws. But I probably hero fold to much.

GcluelessNLnoobG
/ Stack off with TPTK on flop? ~60BB deep Quote

      
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