$2/3 $100-300 buy in. 9 Handed

Villain (200) MP+1
Old white regular, likes to limp. Not afraid to raise pre flop, and he usually has got something when he does. Tends to overplay his AJ+ hands. Aware of position. Bets heavy to protect, never bluffs. Fit or fold player, cbets get him away.
Hero (850)
doesnt matter.

Im on the BB,
UTG+1 makes it $6 (very LAG player, too spewy and bad at being aggressive.)
MP makes it $15 (Older guy. Solid player and have had some history.)
MP+1 makes it $35 (villain I described)
CO calls,
Hero calls,
UTG+1 calls
MP calls.

The flop isnt the important question. When a Villain, like the type I described, raises from $15 to $35 when I usually don't see him do this, do we get away when OOP? Do we call or raise? I just am concerned with position and how often we are behind in these situations.

I think it's a pretty straightforward fold with QQ facing a cold 4-bet as a default, but especially against this villain.

I wouldn't call here either. We're relatively shallow, oop, and UTG+1 (even if he's spewy) and MP (he's an old guy who raised, albeit he raised a spewy player) are still in the hand and can blow us off QQ often enough pre-flop that it's just not going to make sense to play here. Call/folding pre is a mess.

Yay, we finally found the spot where you should flat a 4-bet pre!

I think we need to range the 4-bettor at AA/KK/AK. Shoving into him is obviously bad.

3 separate players have all made the same mistake of sizing too small, and now we can take advantage of their mistakes. Although this was a 4-bet, we only have to pay the standard 3-bet cost to go to the flop.

Once CO calls, we know that if we call this is going to go at least 4, probably 5 ways. This makes this an excellent spot to set mine with QQ. If either of the two openers jam then we can re-evaluate (probably calling UTG+1 if he were to jam and it folded to us, folding in most other cases)

Am I just over analyzing and got coolered? I feel almost dumb for posting this but pre flop when I saw him throw that 35 in there I felt he had me beat but almost felt like I would be stupid to fold. When the A comes, my thought isn't AA more AK or KK and its only 165 more for lots of dead money on the table.

Post-flop is definitely just a cooler man.

Easy fold pre. The thing a lot of people forget is that some people may have a wide raising range or even a wide 3betting range but their 4betting range is still going to be KK+ or QQ+ and possibly some AK

I fold pre. An old guy 4-bet in a 2/3 game FFS. Unless this is one of them crazy drunk lagfests just fold QQ. Especially OOP.

I think this is a fold preflop against this guy. Is Villain really 3betting another solid older guy with anything less than AA/KK here? Really? I mean, I know we're only sitting with 67bb effective stack and have QQ, but I just don't see us being up against AK enough here given this action, or am I wrong? I would consider a call if the other players are deep and loose (and be pretty much setmining in a 4way pot, folding to any bet from Villain on the flop).

Actually, this table seems very loose, so I think it's ~okish to setmine so long as some other players have deep 200bb+ stacks like we do. As played, we ended up getting 4:1 immediate odds, and if we flop a Q, we'll get the other 4.7:1 of Villains stack if he indeed has AA/KK. That puts us at a very tight ~9:1, but if others in the hand are horrible and can lose some bets on the flop, then okish. If we flop a set, we might have to donk smallish and hope it gets some calls before it gets around to Villain, because Villain is going to shove if we check to him and with us calling I'm not sure we're going to get too many overcalls.

Gtrickyspot,maybefoldingain'thorribleG

call or fold is fine pre

at these stationy tables were likely to see everyone overcall pre giving us the odds to set mine

4bettors range is AA/KK/AK 95-100% of the time so there is so value to 5betting and even the 3bettors range is mostly this.

sorry you got coolered on the flop, nothing you can do

folding pre is fine as well bc of the early raise and 3bet, as they may 5bet jam and leave you wasting 12bbs

even KK i would probably flat here

In these spots, we need to think about our QQ having the same strength as 88 or 99.

If we have correct odds to set-mine then we call and setmine with our QQ.

I know, setmining QQ seems gross but when we 100% know our villain has KK or AA then setmining is fine.

V only has $200. Since the raise is $35 and CO called, we can be fairly confident that the other villains will call as well if we call. So then we get 4:1 in direct odds on our call and only need to make up around 7:1 in implied odds for our setmining to be profitable. Given that we will be up against 3-4 villains that should all be around 80bb deep....

I'm fine setmining my QQ here.

Now the flop is interesting. If I put V on AA/KK and flop comes Q3A can I really fold my set??? I hate it when I retroactively put hands in a villain's range but AK is in his range though we can discount it some. So the question then becomes, "Is AK in his range enough to stack off post flop on this board?"

I think so. If we see the turn, then the odds of him having quads is a lot lower than him having AK...

so this is a cooler.

overall, I'm fine setmining QQ here if we are getting the correct odds and based on all the action you can make the argument that we are. We just have to have the discipline to fold on a 4 2 8r flop....

Folding pre isn't terrible especially if we are worried MP is going to 5-bet

In this spot, I think i'm 50/50 on flatting to set mine my QQ and folding pre. I would probably lean more towards folding since the V I range for AA/KK is only 200 deep. But I don't fault a call "if" we are strictly set mining...

U were spot on until that last part.

LOL at anyone at these stakes having AK in their 4bet range. I'm gonna be confident in saying <5% 3bet AK.