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2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep 2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep

01-19-2017 , 01:11 PM
You guys are trying too hard to be cool saying fold.
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman
You guys are trying too hard to be cool saying fold.
lol this

the proper strat is:
-heavy sigh
-eye roll
-"i caw"
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 01:45 PM
This is an absolute no brainer jam.

If you want to think deeper, your hand is somewhat misrepresented by the large 3b over a small open, and the short stack jamming widens V's 5b range (compared to if the shorty was deep and made a normal cold 4b)

But don't think. 67bb and KK pre. Just rip it in.
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 03:32 PM
Lol at fistpump call. Never folding, definitely +EV to call, but it's nowhere near a fistpump
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonian
even if you thought it was close, consider that the guy on your left is likelier to hold AA, which means you're also playing for a side pot, which should push you more towards calling.
Combinatorically speaking, the most likely hands are V2 with AA and V1 with QQ. So we have 17.7% equity in the main pot needing 23% for a -EV call of -$5.3. And we have 82% equity in the side pot needing 50% for a +EV call of +$17.6. So under this 'ideal' scenario we have an overall +EV of +$12.3 (4.1 BB's).

However, if we widen V1 to QQ+/AK and leave V2 with AA (because lets be honest V2 has AA here), than we only have 14.1% equity in the main needing 23% for a -EV call of -$8.9. And we have 74% equity in the side pot needing 50% for a +EV call of +$13.2. Under this 'more realistic' scenario we have an overall +EV of +$4.3 (1.4 BB's).

So I suppose it can be argued the overall EV is slightly positive. However the crowd arguing "fist pump GII" clearly doesn't seem to understand EV and how small edges are in this game.

Further, upon doing the math, we can see stacks really don't have to be that deep for calling off KK to be -EV. The arbitrary "100 BB" barometer that is thrown around on LLSNL is in all likelihood too high for live poker and I would say a bunch of people must be running super hot variance wise WRT not getting KK vs. AA because it happens all the damn time.

* Edit: PS: The +EV comes from hitting your set and winning the 3-way main pot. So recognize that more often than not, you will lose the $435 main pot and win the $110 side pot. And recognize that it is possible to run very very poorly for a very long time in live poker, so that you may never fully realize your extremely small +EV in this spot.

Last edited by johnnyBuz; 01-19-2017 at 04:49 PM.
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 04:50 PM
I vote puke fold.

LLSNL preflop ranges are messed up in general, esp below 2/5. In essence:

Limp range = ATC
Limp-call range = ATC
Cold call range = any broadway, 22-QQ, any Ax suited, any SC and gappers
3bet range = AK, maybe AQ, TT+
4bet/5bet range = KK+
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 04:55 PM
If players are positionally aware and realize how strong our range is for 3-betting an UTG open UTG+1, then someone really should have AA/KK here pretty much always, and we block KK.

Since it is live poker and live poker players are dumb and spazzy and often not positionally aware, I call.
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 05:56 PM
I tried to back raise 5! Bluff KQo the other day, almost worked. Guy who 3! Folded ATs, guy who opened/jammed 4! Had QQ, guy who took a 4! And a back raise 5! To the face had A5s.

Moral of the story: LLSNL are ****ing stupid (myself included), and can show up with lots of hands you don't expect. For 67bb, I'm calling
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote
01-19-2017 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp
not folding at this stack depth.



(going to ignore side/main pot math because eff stacks are pretty similar)



we need to call $155 and the final pot will be $545 so we need:



155/545 = 28.4% equity



vs 2 ranges of {QQ+, AKs} we have 27.5%

vs 2 ranges of {QQ+, AK} we have 36.3%

vs 2 ranges of {JJ+, AK} we have 42%



if v1 has only {QQ+} and v2 has {JJ+, AK} we have 33.6%



not giving villains ranges as tight as {QQ+/AKs} only 50bb & 70bb deep. If we were deeper and facing this same action we can find a fold for sure though.

Give utg1 AA, AK. Give short all in guy QQ+ only not even any AK and hero is still 30%.

Plus it's Cali. Call for chips and stick it in ... Easy game.
2/3 NLHE -- KK in EP, facing 5 bet allin, 67BB deep Quote

      
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