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[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. [100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove.

08-05-2011 , 07:48 PM
Hero Table Image: Tight
Villain Table Image: Unknown
Table is generally very loose preflop.

7-handed.

Villain has an $80 stack, Hero, $85.

Preflop:

Hero has AKo

UTG limps, Fold, Villain (HJ) limps, Hero (CO) Raises to $6. Dealer folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG Calls, Vil(HJ) Calls.

Pot is $19.50

Flop: K 8 2 rainbow. Hero has KKA82

UTG Checks
Villain (HJ) Checks
Hero Bets $15.00
UTG Folds
Villain Check-Shoves All-In, $74.

It is $62 to call, to win a pot of $167.5, pot odds of 37%.

What would you do in this situation?
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-05-2011 , 07:59 PM
Entirely read dependent broski.

Against an unknown I fold. Against someone I know well, I probably fold. Last hand of the night I probably call. He shoves every flop all night, I call. I've seen him over shove TPBK I call. Most situations I'm folding.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-05-2011 , 08:14 PM
spot on useless - unless he is a complete aggro monkey, or an utter, utter fish this is 88 or 22
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-05-2011 , 10:35 PM
Here's what happened.

Spoiler:
In the real-life hand that happened, I tanked for a good 5 minutes at least, before I decided to eventually make the call, expecting most of the time to be drawing dead to a set.

Here's why I decided to call: While it is true that the only hand that makes sense for him to be doing this on is 88 and 22, even that didn't make that much sense.

I just bet 3/4 of the pot on the turn. Let's assume that I was in his shoes, and that I had 222... It's a drawless board. You can re-evaluate if something comes on the turn to change that, but you're not getting any more money from me if I fold. The most profitable thing to do here would probably either make a re-raise with really good pot odds (like a min-raise) to call, or to smooth call and try to get another street of value out of me.

It just didn't add up. It didn't seem like a bet that wanted a call, it seemed like a bet that wanted a fold... sure, he could have been doing the Vizzini thing, where he bet like it was a bluff to get someone to call... but just as *he's* unknown to me, *I'm* unknown to him. He'd have to assume that I'm a Level 3 thinker at least - in a table with a lot of level 2 thinkers.

I've also seen, at this table, people stack off with JQ on a J-high board. So, I'm not quite sure I'm going to be able to limit him to only a set here. Here's the range I put him on. AA (possible he could have limped to trap?) AK, 88, 22, KJ, KQ, K8, K2. Against the range as a whole I figured I had at least 37% equity. (Pokerstove says 46%).

Combined with the weird feeling I got from the bet, I decided to call.

He had 75o. He was bluffing with air. Complete air.

Later on, he lost four buy-ins that night doing the same exact thing.

I think I found my new favorite fish.

[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 01:37 AM
results too soon, imo. In a situation like this, I make some stereotype generalizations (age, clothes, drink, etc.) to make my best read.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 01:43 AM
Unknown = call
Known super nit = fold

If villain is an observant player who you've played with for a long time, then he played the hand very well. Since he knows you fold 99.5% of your range, he can profitably c/rai with his entire range.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 02:29 AM
On such a dry board it's a pretty easy call against unkown IMO. This screams Kx or some random hand rather than 88 22.i
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 03:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LolPony
On such a dry board it's a pretty easy call against unkown IMO. This screams Kx or some random hand rather than 88 22.i
Think about your logic here. Wouldn't you be more inclined to call on a wet board considering there are WAY more hands in his range you beat? With such a dry board his range is sooooo polarized here.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 04:23 AM
I think your cbet is way too big unless you're playing a fish and snapping this off.

I'd bet a lot less.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote
08-06-2011 , 10:04 AM
Why would we ever fold this? Haven't read spoiler, but this is weaker Kx sooo much more often than a set. You might even see A8 or something... I'd snap this off.
[100NL Home Game] Top Pair Top Kicker vs. Check-raise-shove. Quote

      
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