Glad to hear you are doing well. That game can be amazing. Just don't pay off Ray, whatever you do!

grunch: call bc this is a spot where you're b/f almost all of your range bc it's near impossible for you to be nutted

This is a good point (echoing clorox's)... Hypothetical: if you can rule out flushes or boats, is Jx unlikely enough (even though it beats J9 almost always), due to the cold-call of 3-bets pre, the fact that 3 of the J's are accounted for, and that it should really just be a bluff-catcher/not something villain should expect to get paid off with on a river c/r, to make this a snap call? Again, villain is rich, bluffy and spaztic. When discussing this hand with my friend who also has a lot of hours with this villain, he said, "He doesn't think. He acts on impulse." Thanks.

the villain description makes him one of the more likely to try to own you just cuz types who isn't an out and out maniac. like he may not be able to reason in his head why you aren't nutted, but he might intuitively know it after enough hours of poker and go on "instincts". Those types + shorthanded + late in a session all up the chances of him planning a move from the flop forward because it'd be fun.

I think that has to count for something.

Results: I called and he had KJo. He stood up and gave a big clap when I told him it was good... I'm pretty sure I was right that he couldn't have a flush or a boat. Jx was the only hand that beat me imo. He had to have the case J, he had to have called 3-bets cold pre from the BB with 2 players left to act (including the original raiser) with TJ, KJ or AJ. He had to make an incredibly thin river c/r where my calling range has him demolished. Given all this + the fact that he has a bluff/spaz range + some folks itt say they'd call, I think it's fine.

About 10 more disgusting hands later, I was pfr with AJ and he called out of the blinds. Flop came AJ3. He c/r'd and I called. Turn 9. He checked and I bombed. He called. River 4. He checked, I bombed, and he c/r'd again!!! I tank/folded and said, "If you show me 52 right now, I promise I'll kill myself." He turned over the 52 ball but fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) let me off the hook/spared my life .

POKER

u dont need to win every hand u call

Still like the call in OP hand, though I agree it's "puke/call." Dude just caught you at the bottom of your calling range. Good for him.

This guy's a monkey, and he wants to buy you a boat.

[QUOTE=DGAF;24622119]Results: I called and he had KJo. He stood up and gave a big clap when I told him it was good... I'm pretty sure I was right that he couldn't have a flush or a boat. Jx was the only hand that beat me imo. He had to have the case J, he had to have called 3-bets cold pre from the BB with 2 players left to act (including the original raiser) with TJ, KJ or AJ. He had to make an incredibly thin river c/r where my calling range has him demolished. Given all this + the fact that he has a bluff/spaz range + some folks itt say they'd call, I think it's fine."

Thing is it's clear he was not thinking about whether your calling range has him demolished, much less what you might be putting him on. For a rational player it would be a thin CR, but for an impulse player not so much. And I do think the call was pretty much mandatory given the specifics.

"About 10 more disgusting hands later, I was pfr with AJ and he called out of the blinds. Flop came AJ3. He c/r'd and I called. Turn 9. He checked and I bombed. He called. River 4. He checked, I bombed, and he c/r'd again!!! I tank/folded and said, "If you show me 52 right now, I promise I'll kill myself." He turned over the 52 ball but fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) let me off the hook/spared my life ."

Glad you did not follow through with the promise. In this second hand that "don't call the river check raise" resolution seems more applicable - looks improbable that he could have that hand (or a set) but the CR says he does.

I know, that's why I said I think it's fine even though I lost . Was just kind of venting after that, my apologies.

Two crappy hands. Unfortunately, this week I was joining you in the misery column.
5duece; really?;5deuce?

My post was spot on

Your read was def spot on. Not sure about turning my hand into a bluff and shipping over the c/r when I have no real value shoving range (given my line up to that point) though. Other people like it?

DGAF... I think that you could potentially get more calls and avoid thin value check/raises by betting slightly more on the river. If you are going to happily snap off a check/raise to someone, then I think this is a fine bet size, but, as played, your hand really looks like a value bet and it REALLY doesn't look like you can have a flush.
I think your hand is pretty face up as Jx or MAYBE air (AdTx? I dunno...) but it really doesn't seem to me that players will a) bet the turn this size with a flush or b) bet the river this size with a hand that can beat Jx. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't your bet sizing be larger if you had a flush or AJ here? I get that he's a live drooler, but even they are capable of making a read now and then.

... I know it's easy to play monday-morning quarterback, but I think that if you bet the river like this (which I think is ok), you have to fold to a check/raise with J9. If you bet bigger and he check/raises an amount less than all in, I think this is closer. As played, I think it's very unlikely that anyone will bluff check/raise the river like this for only 2k more. If, say, you'd bet 1300 and he made it 4k+, I think it's closer to a call, actually.
FWIW - did he have the Kd?

You make a good point about possibly getting called wider and certainly reducing the # of thin (or bluff) raises faced by betting a higher % of the pot with thinnish value hands. In general, I do this against good players (unless I'm leveling) and I save the small or blocking bets for people I think will never read it/exploit it. Every now and then someone who I didn't think was capable will sniff it out and play correctly against it. Not sure that happened here, but excellent point nonetheless...

I was betting small enough to get called by AK or any small pp (I have a pretty ******ed image) fwiw. And no, my boy was sans lol.

c/r rivers is the new live vogue bluff play, especially as no-one seems to be folding to a normal bet, this is just wtf

We don't fold to river c/r either (even though we know we should).

Hey I was also thinking... I mean I dunno players well, but it's possible that a larger bet on the turn, like ~650 or so will get called more often by combo draws like KdT type hands than like TJo hands with no diamond that beat you.
In that way, it's kinda similar to a hand where like... say you flat TT on 852r, turn brings 4 with a BDFD - if you raise a 2-barrel like 3xish, you sometimes get JJ-AA to fold and you get draws to call, depending on opponents and stack size. I don't know if that's the case, but I think it's worth noting that slightly worse hands may call a bigger bet, whereas slightly bigger hands (like what villain has here) may opt to fold rather than call a big bet OOP and face a tough river decision (only hoping that villain has very thin value). Just a thought. I think there are multiple benefits to betting bigger on both streets and I think more villains are aware than I like to think of how bigger bets are more often for value from good players when they think they're facing bad players. I try to notice this online and it seems fairly true, tbh.