^Altering solvers, I think is key to getting the most out of them. I was not ignoring the beginning of the tree, was essentially node locking the only two logical flop sequences if that makes sense. The solver is adaptable to this.

Yes I understand what node locking is but you are doing it to a point where it no longer makes sense and tells you nothing about the actual hand. We are only talking about the sb flat here, you can’t node lock pio or anything else pio for a 5 way hand. That is for monker or AI, but again they will show you very face up results that are not interesting in the same way heads up solutions are.

When you lock out the extremely important parts of the hand here it’s the equivalent of me asking my doctor how I got herpes and not telling him I raw dogged a $10 hooker. I’m node locking the hooker because I’m interested in hearing what his solution is without that beginning piece of knowledge...even though it is of key importance to the solution.

Solving turn and river is only going to make sense if our flop play is good and we know what our flop ranges should look like 5 ways. If we are calling too much or too little on the flop every decision we make after that isnt going to be optimal. We could use MDF to come up with our call frequency on flop but what range do we assign villain?

How can you say we should call X% with AK on river? What ranges are you using? If villain’s range is entirely 22 then we should be calling 0%

As for the hand, I probably fold river as a default and call against some villains I have history with.

Avarita. Imagine this example. Say we are playing a 5 way pot on flop. The hand ends up HU with OP V1 and IP Hero on turn river. I want to analyze correct play on turn/river.

So now say, for simplicity, solver would normally suggest V1 check 100% of range if HU given the flop and ranges (not the hand described in this thread). But, given 5 way, it's obvious V should be leading with his range, hypothetically, and Hero would almost always flat. So if alter V's strategy to bet 100% and Hero to call 100%, the solver will correctly re-asses turn/river when they are HU.

Neither of us are experts on solvers, so would awesome if someone with intimate knowledge of them could chime in here.

Very clear fold. His line was extremely clear that he has A2 or mor probably 22 since you are blocking the ace. Easy fold at the river

What are you basing your comment on that it’s obvious 5 ways he should lead full range? Yes it’s harder to exploit a leading range 5 ways since we can’t just attack his checks if others don’t have a lead range, but if everyone is leading full range then the PFR just gets to win everytime the other players miss the flop. Maybe that’s the equilibrium 5 way solution but that seems unlikely.

I also find it to be unlikely that leading full range is the solution on an AA2 board where the PFR is going to have all the strong Ax.

Your main problem is we just don’t know what hands should lead flop and to a lesser extent what hands hero should flat the lead with. Whatever ranges we enter for Pio on the turn are arbitrary. Now we could play perfectly with an arbitrary range against an arbitrary range, but if our flop play is bad the damage is done and we are just compounding our mistakes.

You totally misunderstood my statement. Re-read. It was a hypothetical example which I state.

Also we enter no ranges on turn. Rather then try to explain, just re-read my last like 3+ statements or something like that.