Villain (UTG): late 20s white guy, TAG ($400)
Hero (BTN): mid 20s Asian, TAG image ($800)

Villain opens $12 UTG. Hero calls with A5. Could 3 bet but we're semi-deep with a fish in the SB. Also I needled this guy recently. The girl beside him bluffed ace high, he called and her ace high was good. I said "what are you calling her with bro?" He looked pissed, said something along the lines of "a worse ace high obviously what do you think man?" Then he said "whatever, I'm not here for validation from you guys." The girl said "it's a pleasure playing with you too" and I laughed. Half the table and I have been making fun of him since with the "validation" thing. My fold equity vs this guy is probably not the best. The blinds call.

Flop: T65 ($44)

Villain bets $30. I think flatting here is better. Keeps non nut flush draws in and doesn't put me in a gross spot if I get 3 bet. If he calls and I brick I'll have to barrel down basically. Again for the same reason why I thought flatting pre was better than raising, I should have extended that logic here. But I decide to get control of the pot. Hero raises to $80. Folded back to villain who makes it $205. This is gross. I have no fold equity I don't think. Shoving doesn't seem like a good idea when I can take a card in position and get it in if I hit one of my 14 outs. If the turn bricks it's super close. I need about 3 to 1 on a call assuming his range is sets and overpairs only.



It'll be around $180 to call ~ $450 which isn't quite there. However if he has a few combo draws in his range I think I have to call.

How would you guys have played this on the flop?

Isn't it only $125 to call? Or am i misreading something?

Raise flop slightly bigger, $110 or so.

As played, shove over his $205 bet.

And don't needle people after they lose a pot.

Your table talk is really really bad for the game. And villain is correct and seems to be playing well.

I think it is fold or shove and gamble.

(I don't like upsetting people at the table unless they are jackasses to begin with. It only damages the game.)

Always hard to tell in writing how this table banter is coming across; is it all in good fun amongst friends giving good natured jabs, or are you being a dick? Basically, don't be a dick (not saying you are, just saying don't be one).

I fold preflop. Yeah, position. Yeah, deep. Yeah, maybe we go three ways with a fish in the blinds. I'm simply not convinced that for these relatively poor immediate odds that we have enough IO to really make money in this spot (the only thing that matters), unless our plan is to just cooler someone. I don't hate the call, and we ended up with a decent result with both blinds coming along (padding our immediate and implied odds).

I just flat the flop. The pot is small relative to stacks; if it was bigger, it would be more worth winning. Instead, stacks behind are more worth winning, so let's just play to hit our hand and then play for stacks. Also, this guy is betting into 3 opponents after raising UTG, so our FE is way lower. We're also perfectly fine with others coming along to pad the pot for us and putting their stacks at risk if we hit.

Another reason not to raise is we absolutely hate life if reraised. It decimates our IO, there's now much more chance we don't have nearly as many as outs as we think we do, and we might even have to fold (and not realize our equity, which would be a real shame). This guy has put in more than half his stack, so it is unlikely he's folding, but there's always a chance (he can't call with AK or a mad hand hes going nuts with). So now it's just a question of whether we think our hand is worth getting it in versus his range. With the nut flush draw, most likely A outs and most likey 5 outs (although obviously our outs reduced if up against AA/TT), and some small FE, it's probably worth shoving. As played, I would just shove and live with results.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Flat the flop. Villain offered us almost the exact price to call for just one card and I don't think we need to raise this street to get it all-in with him when we hit. Since our flush draw is to the nuts I don't mind the blinds coming along too.

Why are you calling a TAGs UTG 6BB raise with A5s? If you wan to "take control of the hand" the way to do it is by 3 betting preflop, but I wouldnt do it when hes UTG unless you know he raises small to medium pps UTG.

As played with these stack sizes, I would mostly call the flop bet and sometimes min raise him. They will call and check turn to you almost every time just like a limit game. However, after you agitated him already, I would just call.

You guys realize V has less than $200 left, correct?

With regards to we should have little FE, right?

Typically I'd agree, but if this guy is agitated maybe he's making a move with AK or whatever on the flop and now has to sigh fold some of the time. I'm not sure we're ever going to be able to fold (even if we call and face a shove on the turn I'm guessing we're getting good enough odds to continue, although I haven't bothered to work it out), so if that's the case we might as well add ~5% or whatever FE to our hand and shove now.

GimoG

never make fun of a bad player

Just for the record, villain wasn't a fish. If villain was a fish I would never needle I would always be nice and call out anyone needling or criticizing him. Villain was a TAG with a bad attitude. And he was wearing headphones. I love tilting headphone grinders. Not if they're chill obviously but most of the time they sit around, never smile or talk so fvck them.

It does look like flop is a flat since he opened UTG and cbet into 3 opponents. Can people saying shove tell me why I should do so when he's probably not folding? Especially when I have position. I absolutely agree that if he's 3 betting air sometimes it's a clear shove but there's a huge difference between sometimes and never. Remember he's not looking for validation.

It's 1/3 not 1/2.

No, with regards to people wanting to just call or minraise. I already advocated shoving or folding. I would shove. I don't think calling is an option.

I shove because I need to see two cards and if I hit I want to get paid. I think calling and folding the turn is a mistake. Just fold now if that is your plan.

I have near zero IP raises on this flop, this game. AP enough equity to jam, your A5 outs are mostly good and while he rarely has air, he might hero fold some 20-25% equity hand once in a blue moon which isn't terrible when you have this hand, this spot. I also think you should give him half the 55-66 if you're not including KQhh/Qjhh/87hh in there. Players don't open 55 without those other hands as a complement, and if you're relying on his range to make your decision then you need to nit him up completely or add a more practical set of hands.

I feel like a lot of players would open raise 22 UTG before they would 87s. So he could have all the sets (though I block 55) and no combo draws. I could be very wrong here so I'd like some opinions on this assumption.

I think you left out that part where there are two other Cold Callers beside yourself in your opening post....it does change the dynamics a little bit here

agreed...i think KQh,QJh,78h should b included...

call is good because we have implied odds on the 5s and position with the nut draw...dont see any reason at all to raise the flop..you can price the rest of the field in and feed the kitty just by calling so raising sucks

It is a pretty unusual "TAG" that is calling down with ace high, bad kicker on the river. Therefore, it becomes more difficult to range him because I'm not sure how he really plays.

Pre flop though is fine. The IO is in the 30s and we have position on a possible tilting player.

The flop is another matter. The 3 aces and 2 5s could win us a big pot and we'll get at least one bet out of him if we hit the flush. So I'd call. Instead, you decided to continue your dick swinging contest by raising. You just saw him call with ace high. He's not folding to your raise. All you're doing is letting him get the money in good. That's bad poker. If you call, the pot will be so big that you'll have to call the bet on the turn unless the board pairs. So at this point you might as well shove it in.