you played EVERY STREET like a wuss.
snap call river
his AJ or J10 is no good

You need a 101 class in range interaction. This is not a good flop for AA.

There might be an argument for raising the turn, but it’s going to be pretty thin. It’s more of a V-dependent read at that point.

You must get stacked on overpairs a lot if you just barrel off with them even when the board texture smashes the calling range of the players behind you.

Anybody care to comment on this?
I thought turn was close to a slam dunk raise, but the majority of posters seem to prefer just calling.

Excellent point about the increasing bet sizes. I’ve noticed that too in games.

Why do I read Venice’s posts and imagine he is scary to play against?

I've done this a little online and i think it's a great idea, especially at 1/2, 1/3 bc people won't raise the river as a bluff almost ever and you're still getting called by as little as top pair.

In this hand what amount would you bet on the river?

Thanks! Should be a good read.

Regarding raising the turn: you’re targeting what, exactly? Smaller sets that obviously won’t fold and AJ. That’s it. JT, T9 and J9 are often going to fold with the board texture and you risk losing combo draw straight hands as well. You’re far behind a made straight at this point and if you’re facing a made straight, you risk pushing out a flush draw who would possibly improve at the same time as you. You also may be pushing out hands that you can stack if the board pairs.

With all that said, I’m not saying a fold check-raise is bad but it’s very close. I’m check-calling here every time.

1) Yeah, my range is probably wider than yours, OMC

2) That was my thinking too. This is def the best hand i show up with here with my c/c, c/c, check range, so i can't really fold it. That and he could still be valuing 2 pair, and def valuing his sets on the river here.

This was/is my thinking on raising the turn.

My hand is so under-repped, it's a prime spot for a missed combo draw to bluff the river, so i may as well keep my range wide.

I also may be misapplying this but often Doug Polk talks about protecting your checking range, and this seems like a good spot for me to do that while also exercising some pot control.

I protect my check range when against those who are paying attention. When I have a guy who has position on me who will bet liberally when checked to, I sometimes check big hands to befuddle him.

Hey, yes I was thinking:
sets (9) call
straights (20-32, the kid was the first caller pre and seems semi serious, so i kinda think he has 16 KQ, 4 78s, and maybe 1 or 2 Q8s?) call
2p calls (though you're prob right that some of the lower 2pairs fold)
some combo draws call.

So basically if he's somewhat sensible pre he should only have 22 straights
vs
9 set + 3 AJ + 9 JT + 2 J9s + 2 109s + maybe 1 A10s = 26ish 2p+
say he folds all the J9s, 109s, and 3 of the J10, he still has 20 2p+

So even if he fold all his combo draws jamming looks ok, considering we can suck out vs straights. The grayest area of that would be how often he finds a fold with J10 and AJ - maybe he folds all his J10....

If you jam turn he'd have to call 320 into 1040 so would need like 35-40% equity, I think plenty of people would gamble it off with Axh, Q9h, 89h.

I'm probably just overly optimistic though

Hey, I've widened my UTG range to KK+ now.

But, when i have KK and ace comes on flop i 100% grumble "friggin ace magnets" before i ck/fold.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

I like our flop and turn lines. But why are we not c/jamming the river?

I look like OMC and because I'm playing TAG, people assume I'm nut peddling. I'm not scary to anyone. I follow David Sklansky's dictum to have everyone when I leave think, "how the hell did he get those chips?"

I'd bet $100 or make a 1/2 PSB. I'm getting 3:1 odds of being a winner. Given how this hand was played, two pair will likely call.

If you are not betting AA on this flop what hands are you betting with here?.... thats just very very strange to me. Checking can't be terrible but in my opinion its a mistake in this spot because betting is generally better and keeps our range wide.

As played did you not considering raising the turn?

Kid has Q most of the time and based on your description rarely may have two pair or missed flush draws. Discount most sets because he would 3b preflop.

Honestly pretty poorly played hand. Just fold vs the kid and play vs the droolers lol

If I had to guess kid has QJ

Those of you that are saying b/f is bad vs this player are not reading into the hand correctly.

Before we bet we do not know who will play back at us or call, but it doesn't sound like the droolers at this table are going to semi-bluff raise 4 handed on J109hh flop unless they have nut flush draw.

Pretty sure even QJ just calls

If you construct a range of hands that calls flop vs raises you vs fold ON AVERAGE you will find that it is more profitable to bet here and extract value from hands that connect flop but you are beating

If you are raised you can try to soul read its really not that hard and do some quick math to see if you have correct odds to call etc. Yes, keep in mind that V sometimes just has KQ

Still in my opinion not only is checking here too nitty its just bad

Also @venice you make some good points and are suggesting a blocking bet, but check/call check/call lead(small) lines are generally weak and there definitely are players that will pick up on this and shove, if this happens even 1 in 5 times when V bluffs u off when he has missed flush draw its a disaster.

Also when you lead like this you are not giving V chance to barrel off his bluffs

Just because V thinks he has a good hand doesn't mean he can beat TP and the sizings tell is very misleading because some players just don't know better.

I don't really get the logic in point 2. Why does it matter if you are at the top of your range with some given line? I mean this isn't a fold but not because you're at the top of your range but because you are doing well enough against villain's range to make a call profitable.

If villain were an OMC who shoves the river do we still call? We're at the top of our range either way.

Also what were the starting stack sizes?

As played its just a simple math problem. I'm still advocating to fold. With that being said pretty sure u have the correct odds to call without actually doing the math lol

@ME2TheEV you butchered this hand!!

Let me guess, you called and he had it

Seems like people are preferring c/c OTT because:

- They figure he'll fold his weaker 2pair hands and combo draws to a raise
- c/c underreps and may induce a river bluff from busted draws
- c/c protects checking range

I still think x/jam turn looks $

I'm betting the flop when i have straights, two pairs, sets, pair plus draw, flush draws.

I think having a hand i check here that has no blockers and yet is ahead of a lot of both villains flat calling ranges is good. I just don't see how a flop lead is good.

Turn c/r is def something i can see doing, but i think you are folding out a lot of hands that you will get value on and then getting owned by straights obv. But at least the drawing hands you've crippled their equity. So turn c/r is def in the mix, i just didn't this time.

This makes quite a bit of sense, thanks for elaborating.

Yes its great to have a strong check back range but not multiway on such a wet board. Maybe check Q 9 4 heads up with AA is good every once in a while for balance but not multiway on such a wet board. In my opinion its too passive.

Leading flop is good because u take initiative and extract value from many hands like QJ, Q10, Q9, etc even 98 that may decide to check. Betting denies equity. If it checks around there are many bad turn cards for your hand, especially multi way your equity can decrease drastically more obviously with each additional V in hand. Betting gives protection and based on V's action (raise/call/fold) to your bet u can better narrow down their range to make better decisions on turn/river

In my opinion betting is many more times better than checking. If you bet the flop hand plays out completely differently and I think more to your advantage.

Flop bet range looks good. You're going to have some straight draws if you want more bluffs, too.

I'm personally x/c'ing my pair + FD hands though.

It's got nothing to do with balance. Those hands from which you're aiming to get value have 43% equity against us. Put a reasonable opponent range that continues to a bet into Equilab or similar software; it'll have >50% equity against our hand. A cbet is not going to extract value unless we start putting hands like J5 in opponents' ranges (which, if so, clearly I'm playing in the wrong games).