I've been reading some of the old c-betting threads and I suspect I've made more mistakes than I realized when it comes to c-betting against 2 opponents, and one type of board that I've probably made mistakes with is when the flop comes T high. As a result, I've decided to make up some hands here because I'm not sure how to handle these situations. I'm hoping this is okay since the flops are almost all the same and hero is in LP in every hand except #5 (I'm more likely to be in LP in these spots, so that's one reason why most of the situations show hero in LP). Villains in the hands are unknown, and effective stack sizes are $300.

Hand #1:

Two players limp, hero raises to $21 on the BTN with A8, both limpers call.

Flop comes T63

Both limpers check to you. Do you c-bet?


Hand #2:

One player limps, hero raises to $18 in the CO with AJ, the BB calls, the limper calls.

Flop is T63

Both limpers check. Do you c-bet?


Hand #3:

Two players limp, hero raises to $21 on the BTN with 98

It's checked to hero on a T63 flop. Do you c-bet?


Hand #4:

2 limpers, hero raises to $21 with A5 on the BTN, both limpers call

Flop comes T63 and it's checked to hero. Do you c-bet?


Hand #5:

Hero raises to $15 in EP with AK, 2 players in LP call

Flop comes T63 and you are first to act. Do you c-bet?

Yes to all

yes hell yes hell yes hellllllll yes yes

Yes to all.

Say you c-bet half pot for all and get c/r 3x. What would you do?

Lol maybe I should have put a flush draw on some of those flops. If everyone answers yes then I guess I should be encouraged though because I've been wondering if I've been too aggressive with my c-bets lately.

I'd quickly fold all of those hands except for #4.

Well yeah lol. Double barrel and sometimes triple with no fear!

+1

I think you'll find it more profitable to make this decision based on flop texture and your opponents tendencies rather than the cards you hold. I'd c-bet all of these against unknowns, planning to double or triple barrel many turns and rivers.

Typical V's have tended to deny big pairs by failing to open raise or reraise and so likely don't have TT+ AJs+, AQo+. (That's a possible range -- other ranges are certainly also plausible: this is one place V's tendencies come into play.)

This flop missed most of the hands typical LLSNL limp/call with. c-betting with any two is likely profitable here. (More specific reads on opponents might modify this.)

If V's are likely to peel the flop light, plan to barrel the turn on pretty much any card. Conversely, if a nit calls he or she probably has a hand (but might perhaps be moved off that hand if scare cards come on the turn or river). Thus very loose callers should be presented another barrel because they likely don't have a hand that they'll call twice with. Nits should be presented another barrel when a scare card comes (or if they're so nitty they'll construct their own scare cards in the presence of rapidly escalating bets). V's that ditch all the hands that don't fit, but then call down with any decent pair would not likely be profitable to continue barreling: they likely have at least a T and will call it down without significant scare cards.

I'd fold to any check raise. There are very few draws to get frisky with, so a CR is likely at least TP.

If you cbet 100% you are burning money. If you never cbet when u miss, you are losing money. You have to be balanced. You have to cbet certain percentage of your missed flops. What percentage is dependent on villains, your image and many other things. That your job to figure out.

The question is not whether to cbet, but whether to barrel.

The answer is yes to all. (obviously depends on the turn card and flop action but I'd be barreling most of the time)

Just cbetting and then giving up is a mistake in these hands. It's particularly bad with ace high hands because a single bet will only fold worse hands and very few better hands. If you're not going to barrel them then it's probably better just to check and take a turn or try to induce a steal.

Why are you playing so many hands 3-way?

I'm not. I just made these 3-way hands because I think 3-way is where I'm likely to make the most mistakes.

What does this even mean? Hero is raising to 7x after two limpers and getting two calls. Lol at implying that that is somehow a mistake.

You just raise the same amount every time and hope 0 or 1 guy calls? Playing hands 3-way isn't a winning proposition. Raise to the amount that gets HU. Sometimes it's 5x, sometimes it's 12x, etc. Adapt to the table.

I'm saying part of the problem is that you're MW. You're asking for postflop advice, preflop is also important.

I think this gives villains too much credit for paying attention. Of course some will notice if any of your c bet lines are 100 percent unbalanced, but even then it's not common.

You don't have to be balanced, it just has to look that way

Cbet when
1, flop likely missed villains
2, you have equity
3, you have a plan for the turn

I am willing to bet most players make Cbet mistakes by not thinking about number 3

I said the hands were made up (they didn't really happen), but I will find myself in similar spots in the future and I get in a lot of c-betting situations. I'm comfortable with most flops, but I wasn't sure how to handle certain ten high flops.

I do agree with what you said about PF though. I'd much rather try to get it heads up instead of getting 2 or 3 callers.

1. Ace high rates to be the best hand and you want to realize your equity
C-betting a lot builds bigger pots for you to get lost in later, especially multi way, and C betting too much makes live players play back at you more (ie. check raise with any pair)
2. Live, everyone put's you on AK

HAND 1 - No
You are only making worse hands fold, no one is folding a pair

HAND 2 - No
You are only making worse hands fold, you have 2 good overs, and a decent amount of good backdoor straight draw/flush drawing turns to barrel

HAND 3 - Yes
You need to make Jhigh+ fold, you also have a very well hidden nut gut shot if called

HAND 4 - Yes
You have nut flush draw and want to build a pot, this is the hand to at minimum double barrel. You have tons of equity via Ace, backdoor straights and flushes

HAND 5 - No
They always put you on AK

Cbet depends on the flop texture to a certain degree. Might more at 2/5. At 1/2, its more dependent on villains and hero's image. 1/2 players seem to be more driven by emotions. Nits and scared money, they play fit and fold. Some with low confidence, they will call you down with ATC, if flop is T high and this is your third cbet in last hr. And the clueless ones, they will call you down with any piece of board, even with middle pair or gutshot.

So my taking on cbet is,

Dont over do it.
Dependent on heros image. TAG is better. LAG willing to GII anytime is good too. LAG with only one bullet is bad.
If you want to cbet, cbet atleast =>2/3 pot. And double barrel 70% of the time or more on safe turn card.
And be aware of pre play. VPIP or forced into pot. On second instance, villains range is wide. Sometimes at 1/2, villains enter pot for various reasons.
You and villain should have med-deep stacks. No short stacks. 1/2 villains dont know how to play deep. Instead they are scared to lose it all. So you have balls, you can push them around

@IDWH, if you play at foxwoods at 1/2, dont try to cbet "the most interesting man on the world, dos iquis guy". He will call u down.

Hand #1:

I think this is a good spot to CBet as you only really have momentum on your side. The fact that you have little to no backdoor nut equity and no pair currently makes me want to CBet this board. I find a lot of villains to be sticky at these levels, but against unknowns it is a little more complex.

I like to check the turn here most of the time we do not improve, allowing me to balance when I check a strong hand behind on the turn in other situations. We can also induce bluffs from missed straight draws or worse pairs than those that we can pick up by the river.

Hand #2:

I check behind here very frequently (Villain dependant) due to the backdoor potential and the possibility of a delayed CBet being profitable against the villains.

Hand #3:

I check here a lot (Villain Dependant) as I do not want to get raised of the little equity I likely have.


Hand #4:

This really depends on Villains again, but way more often than not I would CBet this board and review the situation of stacks and tendencies if check raised.


Hand #5:

This board is not so great and if we are called and miss the turn, do we really want to barrel into an unknown?

I think betting could easily lead to big swings that we probably don't need to take. If we check and everyone checks and the board pairs or hits us, then I would take a stab more often than I would not.

An important reason is also if better hands will fold or worse hands will call.

I will sometime not c-bet in each of these cases. Against an unknown, one reason I sometimes don't bet is simply to gauge their reaction to not c-betting.

If I do bet and get called, my experience has been that my opponent usually thinks I have AK/AQ and will often call down so long as they can beat that range.

Ohhhh so you are type of fish who raises massive with premiums "for protection". It all makes sense now.

You don't care if you play hands HU, 3-way, 4-way, or 5-way? You just raise to (3*BB + 1BB per limper) and w/e happens happens?

For the next month keep track of every hand you're in where 3+ guys see the flop. You won't be in the black.