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1/3 NL A6o OTB 1/3 NL A6o OTB

01-27-2023 , 07:10 PM
Just sat down, 1st hand. Don’t recognize V

As6h OTB - folded to me …opened $15. V in BB called.

Flop - 6dQs2s - check, check

Turn - 5h - V bet $20, call

River - 9s - V $20…raise to $100
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 07:15 PM
I believe A6o is the hand people lose the most with, but with that said, open raise from the button seems ok. Wouldn't do it from any other position.

Flop - check is fine
Turn - marginal call, I probably just fold but I get it.
River - his bet seems weak, but against an unknown at 1/3 bluff raising seems bad even on the scare card. I feel at this stakes you gotta see if the player has a fold button before bluffing.

Last edited by hitchens97; 01-27-2023 at 07:22 PM.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Just sat down, 1st hand. Don’t recognize V

As6h OTB - folded to me …opened $15. V in BB called.

Flop - 6dQs2s - check, check

Turn - 5h - V bet $20, call

River - 9s - V $20…raise to $100
Your river raise should be snapped off by Qx. You're c-betting all FDs, and Qx.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balerion1
Your river raise should be snapped off by Qx. You're c-betting all FDs, and Qx.
Of course but his range is wide in BB and his turn and river bet are not in line with a Q. River bet in particular is very weak
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
I believe A6o is the hand people lose the most with, but with that said, open raise from the button seems ok. Wouldn't do it from any other position.

Flop - check is fine
Turn - marginal call, I probably just fold but I get it.
River - his bet seems weak, but against an unknown at 1/3 bluff raising seems bad even on the scare card. I feel at this stakes you gotta see if the player has a fold button before bluffing.
Pretty sure any A is an open from the button
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Of course but his range is wide in BB and his turn and river bet are not in line with a Q. River bet in particular is very weak
He's a rando unknown at 1/3. Queen is completely in line with that betting.

River bet seems weak for sure, but some 1/3 players just bet the same amount consistently. It's also conceivable he's worried about the Flush *but* will still end up calling.

The absolute most important point is trying to bluff unknowns at 1/3 is generally a poor strategy.

Last edited by hitchens97; 01-27-2023 at 10:07 PM.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 10:15 PM
Pre... I'd probably open less.
Flop... I like betting. Why did you check? FPS or ?
Turn... meh but probably ok as played.
River... WTF are you doing. At LLSNL this is borderline hero-call/fold.
AP this is lighting money on fire.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 11:35 PM
del

Last edited by OvertlySexual; 01-27-2023 at 11:48 PM.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-27-2023 , 11:41 PM
He has a queen a lot more than you’re giving credit. His turn bet is not small, and river he gets scared of the flush so same bet.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 02:33 AM
I bet flop. We are probably ahead but giving a card allows villain to realise equity. Would rather check JJ and the very weakest Qx in our range.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Of course but his range is wide in BB and his turn and river bet are not in line with a Q. River bet in particular is very weak
Looks consistent w a Queen to me, but if you really think he doesn't have a Queen or better then you should call river.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OvertlySexual
del
Why?
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium
Looks consistent w a Queen to me, but if you really think he doesn't have a Queen or better then you should call river.
Yea, I think I have an issue with changing plans during a hand. I was pretty much focused on playing my hand as a flush draw from the flop. It’s bad I know but that’s why I’m posting here and reading others to get better
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 08:38 AM
At 1/3, you should not assume that your unknown villain is going to understand what you are trying to represent. Most are just playing their own cards.

I'm usually very tight when just sitting down at a table. As such, I'd just fold A6o pf. Once I've established how I play, I'd probably raise in this situation and make a cbet.

On river as played, I call. A raise mostly folds out hands you already beat.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Why?
Because I didn't see the flush completed on the river and what I wrote didn't apply. Villain's action does like he has a Q, but there may be a couple of random bluffs there.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 01:43 PM
Your raise looks super suspicious, you're basically telling villain I have a flush or nothing but your sizing isn't big enough to really scare him partly b/c the pot is so small ($100 in absolute terms isn't very scary) but also b/c it's $80 to win $200 which is good pot odds. I generally prefer to have a read on a player before making a play like this. Seems like spew here. I have more questions about the flop check, that's just bad here. Your hand is ahead but also very vulnerable, the 2 flush on the board should have him playing more fit/fold in response to your bet than normal. Just take down the small pot on the flop, be happy, and move on
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmallz
Your raise looks super suspicious, you're basically telling villain I have a flush or nothing but your sizing isn't big enough to really scare him partly b/c the pot is so small ($100 in absolute terms isn't very scary) but also b/c it's $80 to win $200 which is good pot odds. I generally prefer to have a read on a player before making a play like this. Seems like spew here. I have more questions about the flop check, that's just bad here. Your hand is ahead but also very vulnerable, the 2 flush on the board should have him playing more fit/fold in response to your bet than normal. Just take down the small pot on the flop, be happy, and move on
Yea, I need to learn more about adjusting to new vet sizes. I just started playing again after more than a year away from the game. I started playing again this week and I used to C-bet too much. I’ve been trying to check a lot of flops and delay to the turn, depending on the card. It’s been working pretty well in this game but I need to refine it a bit more to mix balance out between flop and turn C-bet depending on the flop.

Particularly I like checking back ok paired or very dry flops with almost my entire range. What do you think? Looking for any advice.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
He's a rando unknown at 1/3. Queen is completely in line with that betting.

River bet seems weak for sure, but some 1/3 players just bet the same amount consistently. It's also conceivable he's worried about the Flush *but* will still end up calling.

The absolute most important point is trying to bluff unknowns at 1/3 is generally a poor strategy.
I get that bluffing at 1/3 is a bad strategy for the hand for many opponents. I know that all too well. But although some of these opponents are brain dead, others at the table are not. I feel like some of these smaller bluffs have likely paid off in other value pots.

And yes, some may not believe it but this is a small pot for this game. Pots get regularly over $1000 as the game progresses (it’s match the stack). Plays more like 2/5 and late like 5/10 with multi-way calls on 3-bets $50 - $100 preflop
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
I’ve been trying to check a lot of flops and delay to the turn, depending on the card. It’s been working pretty well in this game but I need to refine it a bit more to mix balance out between flop and turn C-bet depending on the flop.

Particularly I like checking back ok paired or very dry flops with almost my entire range. What do you think? Looking for any advice.
You're playing 1-3 NL, there's no reason to believe these guys understand the concept of range so you should be playing this exploitatively based on your hand rather than looking at things from a GTO range perspective.

If you're checking back dry flops with your entire range you're losing $$. I would betting those almost 100% and maybe checking back when I flop top set or something ridiculous. Regarding a paired board this is trickier, texture matters a bunch but I would be more inclined to bet with most of my range with plans to barrel most turns as villains can peel flops light. I'm not really too concerned about protecting my checking range here b/c 1) villains aren't that competant and 2) unless they're a reg, we're not going to play enough hands together for it to matter
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmallz
You're playing 1-3 NL, there's no reason to believe these guys understand the concept of range so you should be playing this exploitatively based on your hand rather than looking at things from a GTO range perspective.

If you're checking back dry flops with your entire range you're losing $$. I would betting those almost 100% and maybe checking back when I flop top set or something ridiculous. Regarding a paired board this is trickier, texture matters a bunch but I would be more inclined to bet with most of my range with plans to barrel most turns as villains can peel flops light. I'm not really too concerned about protecting my checking range here b/c 1) villains aren't that competant and 2) unless they're a reg, we're not going to play enough hands together for it to matter
Yea, that’s the way I almost exclusively played before but I’m getting better results now. There are plenty of bad players at Stones to be sure. But there are a lot of regulars that pay attention to how you’re playing. The biggest games are 1/3 and 2/5 (mostly 1/3) but they play very big

I do still lean more towards c-betting dry flops that I miss when there’s a single broadway card that favors my opening range (Q-A).
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Of course but his range is wide in BB and his turn and river bet are not in line with a Q. River bet in particular is very weak
- Pre-flop hi range is wide, sure.
- Flop nothing changes for bb since the hand went xx, but you begin to cap your range by checking back.
- Turn he's betting all Qx and FDs, maybe smaller pp. You're line is showdown bound, so you're pretty much capped.
- River bets are flushes, and Qx for value. What range are you targeting to fold out?


The hand started and ended on the flop. Whether you got villain to fold is irrelevant imho. I think flop check back is a mistake long term and doesn't generate as much ev as betting. You want to protect against hands KJ, JT, u paired SCs. You want folds from ATo etc. You want to get value for your nutted hands like QQ+, AQ, KQ, QJ. You want to semi bluff your FDs and apply leverage vs a wide range.

When you take all of that into account, your river raise is more frequently FOS/FPS as oppose to some trappy river flush.

GL!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
I believe A6o is the hand people lose the most with, but with that said, open raise from the button seems ok.
That was calling A6o from the SB.

A6o from BTN is obvious solver open ... but it isn't doing it for 5x, and blind reaction ranges will be very different. I doubt it's a big leak to just fold it.

I would probably cbet flop too much, on the assumption we aren't getting exploited. Even if I was in earlier position and would check a lot more HU, this seems like a bet unless I know villain is going to bluff a lot (and then I lean towards not opening). Your hand basically never improves, and lots of cards can improve V's hands that auto fold flop.
Not betting flop makes river raise super sus, pretty sure your range here is near, if not exactly, 100% bluffs.

After checking behind flop turn sucks a lot, he could be value betting 33/44 and a bunch of semi bluffs ... but also happily betting 77+, and has things like 43/65. $20 into $30 might mean it's more polarized, or even just always better than 6x, but it might not. With some people I just sigh fold turn.

On river I probably just sigh and call, saying Q is good. Might well be better to just fold, but getting to see his cards has some value. Raising the "small" river bet works with some people (go bigger though), but enough people are betting this size with flushes (because I haz nuts and they can't call much) that people don't need to read your range or even be stations to make this bluff bad.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siteburner
Yea, that’s the way I almost exclusively played before but I’m getting better results now. There are plenty of bad players at Stones to be sure. But there are a lot of regulars that pay attention to how you’re playing. The biggest games are 1/3 and 2/5 (mostly 1/3) but they play very big

I do still lean more towards c-betting dry flops that I miss when there’s a single broadway card that favors my opening range (Q-A).
Be careful not to be too results oriented, just b/c you weren't doing well before and are now doesn't necessarily mean you're playing better. You also need to differenciate when playing against and unknown like this hand vs a reg who knows your game pretty well.
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
That was calling A6o from the SB.

A6o from BTN is obvious solver open ... but it isn't doing it for 5x, and blind reaction ranges will be very different. I doubt it's a big leak to just fold it.

I would probably cbet flop too much, on the assumption we aren't getting exploited. Even if I was in earlier position and would check a lot more HU, this seems like a bet unless I know villain is going to bluff a lot (and then I lean towards not opening). Your hand basically never improves, and lots of cards can improve V's hands that auto fold flop.
Not betting flop makes river raise super sus, pretty sure your range here is near, if not exactly, 100% bluffs.

After checking behind flop turn sucks a lot, he could be value betting 33/44 and a bunch of semi bluffs ... but also happily betting 77+, and has things like 43/65. $20 into $30 might mean it's more polarized, or even just always better than 6x, but it might not. With some people I just sigh fold turn.

On river I probably just sigh and call, saying Q is good. Might well be better to just fold, but getting to see his cards has some value. Raising the "small" river bet works with some people (go bigger though), but enough people are betting this size with flushes (because I haz nuts and they can't call much) that people don't need to read your range or even be stations to make this bluff bad.
$15 is the standard open in this game w/no straddle and $20/$25 with straddle. Ok fine with keeping the standard because I’m making so much more with my value bets.

As for the check back, as I mentioned earlier it’s balanced because I’m doing the same with flush draws. He doesn’t know this yet since I just sat down but when I hit a flush later with the same line (hopefully bigger pot since this one was very small in relation to the game).

Those are my thoughts at the time but I appreciate the input. Definitely going to reevaluate with more information
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote
01-28-2023 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmallz
Be careful not to be too results oriented, just b/c you weren't doing well before and are now doesn't necessarily mean you're playing better. You also need to differenciate when playing against and unknown like this hand vs a reg who knows your game pretty well.
True, but the regs are at the table and watching so that should have some value, right?

You’re right on the results. It’s only been 4 sessions with a total of about 16 hours. I’ve been down this road before and I know it can take an abrupt downturn. I want to avoid that as much as possibly this time or mitigate the inevitable by minimizing the downswings and optioning the earnings

Thanks for the help
1/3 NL A6o OTB Quote

      
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