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1/3 Line Check 1/3 Line Check

07-19-2015 , 03:16 AM
Saturday Night 9-handed 1/3 game. Hero has been on the right side of a few coolers (flopped set over set, AA vs KK) and has the table covered.

Villain - late 40's middle eastern male. Very wide limping range PF, but pretty straightforward raising range. Post flop gets sticky without hitting much. Has about 550.

Preflop
Villain raises to 12 in MP
Hero calls in the cutoff with 98
Both blinds call

Flop
Q 8 3 (Pot after rake: 43)

Blinds check
Villain bets 25
Hero calls
Blinds fold

Turn
Q 8 3 9 (Pot after rake: 93)

Villain bets 75
Hero raises to 220
Villain calls

River
Q 8 3 9 6 (Pot after rake: 553)

Villain checks
Hero shoves (Villain has a little under 300)

Any comments, especially on turn sizing, are appreciated.
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07-19-2015 , 03:23 AM
Turn sizing is good IMO. Just a thought since we don't know if villan called the shove.... Would it made you more money to raise flop to 75 and to build a bigger pot to where villan doesn't have 300 left on the river?

I assume that you are not going anywhere on the flop
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07-19-2015 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by battagd1
Would it made you more money to raise flop to 75 and to build a bigger pot to where villan doesn't have 300 left on the river?
I'm not sure if this is right, but my flop thought process was flatting lets one of the blinds come along, which I'm fine with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUMTG
Villain - late 40's middle eastern male. Very wide limping range PF, but pretty straightforward raising range. Post flop gets sticky without hitting much
To clarify the bolded part, Villain check/calls more than he should post flop. His betting is usually for value, so on the flop I think I probably have to hit and I probably don't have much fold equity. If we brick and he checks the turn then I'm fine firing, but I don't see the need to pump it on the flop.
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07-19-2015 , 11:12 AM
You crushed this flop. By raising the flop you give lots of hands who have very good equity against you (weak top pairs, bigger diamonds) a chance to fold incorrectly.

If you're going to call raises preflop with 89s you have to be prepared to go to war with flops like these. Otherwise just fold your SCs as it's a leak.
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07-19-2015 , 11:19 AM
Great job
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07-19-2015 , 11:28 AM
Pre: I like calling w these stacks.
OTF: you hit this pretty hard. i prefer raising the flop for a couple reasons:
If V has nothing, you take it down.
If V calls the raise, you better set up the pot to play for stacks.
You can take the lead and choose to take a free turn card if V calls and then checks to you.
If V re raises, you're probably willing to put it in on the flop (whereas on the turn, unimproved, less inclined).

OTT, as played, your hand improved, with two pair and a flush draw, you're not going to raise fold so I like raise. Sizing seems maybe a little small given pot size but it's big enough so that you can pretty easily ship river.

OTR, back door clubs got there. Not sure what hands you beat that V can call a shove. Over pair? AQ? I think 2 pair is good but hard to get full value from a shove. I might have gone for $150 value bet. If he's the type of player to stack off w one pair, the shove is great.
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07-20-2015 , 11:32 AM
I'm okish with preflop. We're deep and in position and the price is relatively cheap. I'd rather be overcalling lots of callers, but even if we end up HU it's not bad (and obviously we're looking to steal some pots postflop).

I'm either/or on the flop. Against fit/foldy villains, I think this is a pretty easy raise as we good hand equity and good FE against better hands (such as JJ-99, Ax, etc.), plus give ourselves turn options (which could be just taking our free card a lot). Against sticky players, we have less FE (although we can still setup a free turn play). I'd probably lean towards a raise but calling is never horrible.

I would just call the turn. We got in just 2% of our stack preflop; are we looking to stack off on this board with this hand? QQ/99/88/JT all beat us, and he's continuing to bet large. We don't really fear the draw since we have the main draw. We'll have position and can make our decision on the river how much money we want to get in.

On the river, the only bet is a shove with these stacks. A lot of worse hands will pay off, but we also run into a lot of better hands (that checked the river for fear of the backdoor flush). I wish we wouldn't have raised the turn so that we could just play for a nice medium sized pot which I believe is the size of pot we're looking to play for with this hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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07-20-2015 , 11:34 AM
I like it.
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07-20-2015 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackInDaCrak
You crushed this flop. By raising the flop you give lots of hands who have very good equity against you (weak top pairs, bigger diamonds) a chance to fold incorrectly.

If you're going to call raises preflop with 89s you have to be prepared to go to war with flops like these. Otherwise just fold your SCs as it's a leak.
+1! 50.7% equity vs. KK
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07-20-2015 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackInDaCrak
You crushed this flop. By raising the flop you give lots of hands who have very good equity against you (weak top pairs, bigger diamonds) a chance to fold incorrectly.
Based on how hero described villain i think those hands are never folding. honestly how often do you really see people fold a big FD to one flop raise in a live 1/3 game?

we have great equity against everything but don't think we are ahead of anything that gets it in with us on the flop and don't think we ever fold out better besides a small range of better 9s, which we can probably get off the hand later anyway. I like calling and seeing how the board runs out for us.
1.) if we miss and he keeps barreling we can fold and we save money we would of lost getting it in on the flop
2.) If we hit he sounds like a station so we can probably find a way to get the money in later.
3.) If villain does have better hands to fold to a flop raise we can get him off of those later in the hand a lot of the time.
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07-20-2015 , 02:42 PM
Thanks for the replies, everyone! I'm starting to come around to the flop raise. Even with what I assume is next to zero fold equity, it helps us out on the turn.
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