Hero, $300, MP+2: Playing tight, that's all I can say.. villains involved haven't seen me showdown any hands so far..

V1, $130, SB: New to the table, young middle-eastern guy, who doesn't seem so good..

V2, $300, UTG+1: Another middle-eastern guy with hoodie and dark-glasses on, seems decent enough..


Hand:

V2 makes it 12 preflop
Hero makes it 40 with KK
V1 calls
V2 calls

Flop ($120): Qs 3s 3c
V1 bets 60, V2 calls, Hero ???

all in. Easy shove

Why shove? Just call ... Did V2 really flat PF with AA? V1 only has $30 behind and that can go in on the Turn if V2 folds here on the Flop. We dont want V2 to think we have this board crushed so he might call with his AQ/KQ type of hands. Not really afraid of a 3 here ... Might have an issue if an Ace peels on Turn but deal with it then.

Only other option would be to min-raise to put V1 all-in before Turn and see if V2 wants to start a side pot. I dont think you get any more money from V2 if you shove.

Shove ... no ... How do you feel if V2 shows up with QQ? GL

I like preflop.

The pot is $120 on the flop and we have $260 left with an overpair on a non-straight/flush board. Even though we against 2 players instead of 1, with an SPR of ~2 we are easily committed. So we're obviously never folding.

The board is slightly drawy with the flush draw, although I'm not sure I'm overly concerned about that. I think I'd be more concerned about blowing V2 off of Qx or perhaps being able to milk something out of an underpair. Course we do risk an A scare card coming. I don't hate calling and getting it in on the turn. I don't hate shoving now as it would be a super hard hero fold for V2 with Qx to make. As long as we don't fold, w/e, imo (I think I *might* lean towards a call).

GcluelessNLnoobG

You're not suggesting we are somehow not losing all our chips to QQ, are you?

GcuzweareG

+1

Seriously, we are always losing to QQ here.
That's just a cooler.
Nothing we do will ever change this hand so that we don't lose it all. It's just a matter of when.

But by sticking it in on the flop AQ, KQ (lol live players), and spade draws) will likely stick around and we get our money in good.

This seems like a super duper easy shove here.
Before we act on the flop there is $240 in the pot, and we've got $260 left.
If we flat, there's $300 in the pot and we've got $200 behind. Are we really thinking about folding at that point to any bet?
If we raise to anything, the pot will have too much, and we will have too little, so once again, are we ever folding getting like 234234:1 odds. So stick it in.

I'm shoving here. We're obviously making $30 more from V1 and (essentially) readless I doubt V2 is folding AQ. If he has QJ/QT sure he may fold OTF but is he really putting it all-in on a blank turn with those hands? By shoving we charge his flush draws the maximum.

Anyone like raising to in essence ai but not quite? V with 300 to start the hand has 260 left after pf, raise the 60 to about 150 and the turn is just a formality. Guys love peeling for trips or sets with mid-pp's even if they only have $50 behind. I think we fold out QQ never and even keep in 99-JJ.

I like a raise to $130-$150. Bloat this pot like crazy.

V2 had QQ here guys

V1 had TT

To be perfectly honest, why did you post this hand?
Was it hoping that hoping that someone would say:
'Wait wait, watch out for QQ'
or 'We have to be beat when he flat'
or 'This is bad news just fold'

I just assume that someone with 1k posts would know a straight cooler when he sees one.
That's all this is.
Just a cooler.

If the flop comes 952 you are taking stacks from 2 people and life is good. From the looks of it, if it's K72 you might still take one stack.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sorry you lose the hand, but losing hands that are only 65% or so pre flop is standard once you play enough.

I hope the next time you get KK it's a bigger pot and you win it.

Chips!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums

You should probably only play the stones from now on.

Hand reading starts pre flop. If villain isn't calling pre with AQ you can narrow his range down post flop based on his flop call as TT-AA, AKss. Do you have the Ks? If so, raising here just pushes out everything you beat. If you have the Ks and AQ isn't in his range then yes you can safely flat flop and fold to any bet as his value range is QQ, AA

If AQ is in his range just raise flop and get it in. And tbh you are crushed badly IF he shows aggression even with AKss in his range as there are 9 combos of AA, QQ total and 1 combo of AKss

These kinds of lay downs separate players who crush from marginal winners. If AQ is in his flat 3bet range pre then we can never fold here. If AQ is not in his range then we must flat flop and fold to further aggression. Readless I'm going broke here

No, I didn't create this thread hoping someone would say any of that. I created it because I thought I should have called flop and folded to further aggression as someone pointed out BECAUSE of the exact reasons mentioned above.

Exactly.

I put him on a QQ-88/AKs type hands with that call. A shove over his call on the flop was not getting calls from anything except QQ/AKss. And AKss is a very small part of his range here. So I think I misplayed the flop.

I would feel like a highstakes pro if I flatted flop and folded turn here. QQ was worrying me a lot.

It's hands like these which separate good from great players.

I forgot to mention, V2 asked for my chip count before calling my 3bet preflop. If that matters at all...

I didn't have Ks and I didn't put V2 on AQ with that preflop call.

What happens if V2 checks turn after we flat flop?

If V2 raises V1's then that changes his range drastically, but he doesn't strike me as the type who folds AQ to a 3-bet pre.

1> I haven't played a darn hand in hours, so when I 3bet, I don't think he's calling with AQ. Maybe just sometimes. I tend to give LLSNL players tighter ranges when they call 3bets, in general.

2> If V2 raises V1, that would be pretty f*d up yeah? Would make no sense whatsoever. AA is mostly not in his range coz he'd have 4bet that pre. KK is almost improbable since I have KK. QQ just calls there. JJ-88 type stuff just calls there (I think?). Maybe he'd raise AK of spades? But that is just one hand. So yeah, I don't think he raises any hands at all here.

What scares me is the flat call. It kind of leaves me clueless. If I shove, I'm not getting called unless I'm beat OR he has AKss, nuts to the flush draw.

The only hand I'm worried of, here, is QQ. And he plays it exactly this way.

Maybe the best play is to flat flop. And then fold to any further aggression by V2. Sounds weak, I know.

Not suggesting it at all ... We all lose our chips to QQ here. I just want to lose them slower!!

I think the key to a shove here is how much of V2 range will call a shove v getting the chips in a bit slower. We know we get the rest of V1's stack so what is the best way to get more chips.

Does V2 only call w AQ/QQ and flush draws anyway? And how much of V2's range are those 2 holdings? GL

I have a similar question to a similar response somewhere else on the forum. I read the OP and I'm thinking "this is an easy shove. Obvi this guy shove and lost." Now reading this response from a 2+2 poster I respect makes me think I'm missing a big concept here. I can't seem to understand my raid g is better because in my mind nothing comes on turn that I dont get AI with. Is the smaller bet simply to induce a call???