1/3 NL

Hero has $400. Playing 1 or 2 hands an orbit probably seen as a good player at the table, plays more deceptively than most bc of several loose guns, but will still value bet depending on the player.

Villian has around $250. Started with $200 and doubled up first hand with aces. Has slowly lost down to $150. I see him as a player who plays loose preflop but tightens up the more money gets in the pot. However he is way too loose/passive preflop and that is where he loses most of his money.

2nd player in the hand sees a lot of flops and will generally let you know if he is strong by raising. He was fairly easy to read, and I don't think he was bluffing very often. Your typical 1/3 NL player imo.

Hero has Q4c in the big blind. 3 limpers, Villian in SB completes, Hero checks. Pot is $15.

Flop 632cc. Villain bets $7, Hero calls, 1 more caller.

Pot is $36

Turn 8. Villian checks, I bet $25, other player folds, Villain calls.
Pot is $86

River ace. Villian checks. Hero bets $60.

On the turn I sensed Villian was weak, and the other caller was somewhat squeezed. Coupled with my outs I decided a bet was in order.

On the river, Villian checked again, indicating weakness twice. I figured a decent sized bet on the river would be enough. In the small blind, I think he could have any number of hands, pairs + gutshots, missed flush draw, a six, etc, and would fold a decent number of them that beat me.

What are you representing? The ace high flush draw? A flopped straight? 88?

I'm just not sure how believable your line is here. I think raising the flop is better if you plan on barreling. If you had raised the flop, I'd like your play a lot more, as you can represent so many more made hands.

With that said, I think your play is OK, as I think villain rarely has anything good here. Pretty doubtful that he checks turn and river with two pair, unless he's one of those ultra-passive "I'm gonna trap you!" donks.

fwiw, a decent player who likes to hero call is probably calling with a lot of random hands.

No one is thinking this at llsnl. Especially with reads on villain.

As played I think you have to fire the river, I expect a lot of folds. The only thing that ever calls you here is like A6 (or I guess Ax clubs lol) since sets are discounted. I guess he could have random 2p hands, but even then I think he folds bad 2p hands when A comes.

"No one is thinking this at llsnl"
I agree that this villain isn't thinking about betting lines, but I think there are at least some players who are capable of thinking through a hand with at least some rationality.

I think that betting the river is good, I just don't think this line would work on a good player, that's all.

Also, villain rarely has two pair here, unless it's A6.

"No one is thinking this at llsnl"
I agree that this villain isn't thinking about betting lines, but I think there are at least some players who are capable of thinking through a hand with at least some rationality.

I think that betting the river is good, I just don't think this line would work on a good player, that's all.

Also, villain rarely has two pair here, unless it's A6.

Well obv I didn't mean no one was thinking ever. But if you go around thinking "oh I shouldn't bet here because it doesn't make sense" then you're giving villains to much credit. It's guilty until proven innocent not innocent until proven guilty with llsner lol. They have to give you a reason to think they know what they're doing.

I don't really see the point of making a 2/3 psb on the turn vs. two opponents, especially since it's not clear what you're representing. In addition, you said that the player behind you wasn't a bluffer, so it's difficult to believe that he was going to make a strong bet unless the 8 somehow helped him significantly. Consequently, I would likely check and take the probable free card.

I like turn bet. It puts ton of pressure on 6x hands. Especially if we plan on double barreling river, we get tons of better hands to fold. Checking turn sucks because then we have to give up otr when we miss

Thanks for the opinions guys. I try not to bluff on the river much in 1/3 NL bc it's a callfest, but I couldn't resist this spot.

Results:

I find myself getting stuck in this spot quite a bit--huge draw from the blinds in a limped pot. Check/call, check/call, check/fold obviously isn't doing it, but--like the OP--I get myself in spots where I'm semi-bluffing turn cards that don't make any sense, just because I feel the need to do SOMETHING to make my draw less transparent.

I have no idea what the right thing to do is in spots like these.

That's why being oop sucks.
What you said doesn't really relate to the hand from OP.
He is IP and betting overcard ott and overcard otr.

Anyways with huge draws from the blinds say you have J7 in bb and the flop is 456 and you opt not to c/r and just c/c when turn is K I'm almost always firing like 1/3 psb a lot of the time you get folds and when you don't you keep the price cheap to draw to your hand. While betting this turn doesn't make sense to a thinking player, non thinking players (99.9% of llsnler that we'll be involved in hands with) think "oh theres a K and he bet, he must have my A6 beat" and fold.

As to the part where you say you semi-bluff because you feel you NEED to do something. That's really flawed thinking for obv reasons. You're talking about merging your ranges on drawy boards. This type of thing just does not need to be done at llsnl. Once you're facing more advanced opponents then that's when merging comes into play.

I think your flop play and turn play are fine, the question on the river is what amount to bet, because given your turn bet and the overcard turn and the overcard river, you gotta bet here against most players. I think it really comes down to our best guess at what amount it takes to get 6x to fold. At the table I probably would've slightly overbet the pot and bet the nice round psychologically scary number of $100. This could easily be too much for all I know, since obv our goal here is to bet the least amt possible to get the job done. Either way nice hand imo.