Hero ($250) raises $15 UTG with AQo, 3 callers including V ($500, UTG+1).

At this point, it was just 5 mins into the game for me and I had no reads on V except that I had never seen him in the casino before. Also, I had come in for a raise 2-3 hands in a row the last orbit. The table was fairly stationy pre it seemed.

Flop ($60): Ah Qc 2h
Hero bets $45, V calls, rest fold

Turn ($150): 7h
Hero ??? ($190 left and no, I don't have the Qh)


Immediately in the next orbit, I make it $15 again UTG with AKo, and the same guy min3bets to $30. Effective stacks were $300 this time. WWYD?

B/F 80-90 on turn and if he flats I would shove a non heart river

I hate playing OOP. With no reads, a small blocker bet might look value-y and you can get away cheaply if raised, so b/f one third pot is an option but if you check, a lot of Vs will check behind because the obvious flush draw got there, so you could plan to check OTT and check call a small bet on the river. For pot control, that might be the better play and it keeps all of Vs weaker hands and bluffs in play.
I think I check, expect V to check behind, then check call a small river bet. If V bets turn, I have to fold or shove bc I'm not calling turn and river and I'm not calling turn and folding river. And I hate shoving into a made hand so that means I open myself up to a lot of bluffs here but I think the problem with a bet/fold line is that all better hands just call, and all worse hands fold. Then my line OTR is check/fold?
If you check turn and check/call river, you're likely to get to showdown for the same amount you would have blocker bet on the turn. Hand has show down value so putting money in there seems more profitable.
I hate playing OOP.

Bet a little more on the flop to $50-55. You can then safely shove all turns.

If we check and V checks back OTT and the river is a blank, why would you not make a vbet and rather c/c? Sounds too weak.

A $50 or bigger bet might scare off weak Ax hands imo, which would otherwise call the standard $45 cbet. $5 can make a big difference to recfish decisions sometimes.

Because I think V is likely to check a flush on the turn. If we check flop and he checks behind, we have no further info. If we then bet river, all flushes raise, worse hands fold. If we check river, a lot of worse aces can bet and there's value in a call. I agree that check turn, check river is a very weak line, but given V and position and board, when we bet, worse hands can't call but we can get value when V bets a weaker hand.

I would bet less on flop. We have crushed flop. I prefer 1/2 pot size bets. As I would do same with c-bet. Villains calling range will tend to be a bit wider (has its benefits, and downfalls).

Then I can easily bet/fold most turn cards.

As played, I have a hard time bet folding with a pot size bet left. Think I check eval. If he bets soul read time. If he checks back. Firing all non heart Rivers.

How many callers did you get in your previous raises? We obviously don't want to go to the flop multiway OOP in a bloated pot, imo, although sometimes that happens. With a $250 stack and at a loose table, I might test the boundaries and raise to $25 so that I can get in 10% of my stack so I can stackoff postflop on TP.

SPR is 4 on drawy board, plus there's an A out there that hopefully someone else can have. I want all the money in by the turn, so I'd bet a PSB on the flop in order to setup a ~PSB shove HU on the turn. Notice how your bet size left you in a wonky bet sizing predicament on the turn (a bit too much to shove, but too little for 2 more bets).

Poor flop betsizing left us in a weird spot, especially on this bad card. But I feel committed, and any reasonable bet size leaves us with too lol little for the river. If opponent can be floaty/bluffy, I would check/shove. But against unknowns, I'd just shove at this point (wishing I had sized my flop bet better to do this).

ETA: We have top two pair on a drawy board with an SPR of not quite 4. I have no idea why so many in this thread don't believe we are 100% committed and aren't playing the hand accordingly (pot control!?!? bet/fold!?!?).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Completely agree.

Passive games. Where Vilains arnt raising without made hand (which doesn't include 2 pair). There is plenty of room to bet fold. If we bet flop smaller.
Obviously, we are only bet/folding to the Nits and super passive players. If a guy has 1 ounce of aggression in him. Then it is a standard stack off spot.

As played. There is no way we can fold here. So just need to pick line that is best at getting it in vs wide range. Versus unknown and wet board. I am just gonna jam here.

Raising to $25. Makes playing hand alot easier post flop, but we are losing alot of value. But if we think we can still get 1 or 2 villains to call with broadways and pocket pairs. Then I am all for it.

Guys it's 1/3. Raising to $25 utg is super non standard and guarantees calls by better hands only.

Have you actually tried it? Admittedly, it really depends on the overall tightness / looseness of your table, but it really isn't *that* out-of-line. Your UTG open just saw a four way flop, it's very possible one of these three opponents could make a WTF-I-didn't-drive-all-the-way-to-the-casino-to-fold-T9s call.

And if all it does is take the blinds, oh well, this ain't the worst possible result being OOP. Move on, and then start making bigger sized raises in LP after limpers so that perhaps someone will eventually call your bigger raises in EP.

GimoG

3 players called a UTG 5xBB raise. Some will call a 8xBB raise. More importantly, by betting $25 if hero gets one caller or more, the SPR will be 4.5 or less. Hero can decide whether to commit on the flop and make all decisions easy. This is a critical point because hero is OOP and we have to overcome this disadvantage by manipulating our bet size to simplify our decisions.

Hero could also have made the hand easier by betting bigger on the flop to setup a shove.

So you're always making it $25 utg to compensate for position ?

Hope not, that would be major leak.

What he is suggesting. Is watch table dynamics. If you have 2 or 3 guys at table that would likely call $25 pre with worse hands than A -Q. Then do it.

It makes for interesting fodder. And I have tried it in late position. Normally to like $22 if there are 4-5 limpers already. But being OOP. I am not sure it is the most +EV play. As we are likely to narrow there ranges to much.

I would definitely try it on the right table. But there would have to be a mega fish that I was sure would call me worse. OOP in big pots with AQ doesn't sound like much fun against anyone with a clue.

No. Taking any specific action 'always' is a mistake. I'm assuming you're at a very loose passive table if 3 players call a utg 5xBB raise. With effective stacks of $250 (<100BB), I would prepare to play AQ and other hands that make TPTK very aggressively, try to get heads up, then decide if I want to commit to the hand. $25 is 10% of $250 which puts me in a good position to make this commitment if I choose to do so. I can make about a pot sized bet on the flop and shove the turn.

With a bigger stack or at a tighter table, I might raise 5xBB or less and play it differently. I might also plan to check-raise with AQ on the same flop. I think raising $25 is a good play in the scenario you described.

when I have hands like AQ off utg, i usually limp/reraise. Of course this depends on the table, but most of the 1/3 tables i play at has one aggressor who will raise in late position every hand. raising early is rough because if one of the next 2 ppl call, then the next guy calls lighter than usual, then everyone has to call bc "pot odds zomg!"