Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/3 Double barreled myself to river 1/3 Double barreled myself to river

02-03-2017 , 05:29 AM
Hero: late 20s white male. Haven't had too many hands and image shouldn't be too relevant except to V2 who's been here for an hour. During that time I made one PFR and took it down pre flop and that's it. Whether he thinks I'm tight or card dead is anyone's guess. Stack $290

Villain 1: 40s Chinese male. Just sat down 20 min ago. Seems like a reg but that doesn't mean he's good. Hasn't got into any hands so I don't think too much of an action player. Stack $300

Villain 2: 30s/40s Indian male. Recently sat down but hasn't got into too may hands. He's limped and folded preflop or on the flop but not much else. Seems recreational. If I had to label him I'd say tight and passive but it's only been an hour. Stack $300

Action at the table has really died down and most hands aren't going past preflop, the flop, or it's a limpfest.

On to the hand!

Folds around to Hero in CO with A9 who opens to 13, V2 calls on BTN, V1 calls in SB, BB folds.

Flop: JT8 (pot=$35)

V1 checks, Hero bets 25, V2 calls, V1 calls

Turn: JT84 (pot=$110)

V1 checks, Hero bets 65, V2 tanks a bit and calls, V1 calls.

River: JT844 (pot=$305)

V1 checks, Hero...?
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 09:28 AM
With two opponents check. After they both call the turn it's just too likely one of your villains will show up with a passively played made hand that won't bet but won't fold either. Sometimes V2 will turn up with a slow played flush or V1 will have hit a boat on the river and are hoping somebody else bets for them.

Shove bluff river isn't terrible but it won't work enough without decent reads that both villains where drawing also.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 09:40 AM
If i took this line I'd shove river as it is obv pretty hard for either of them to show up with a big hand

But I likely start by checking flop
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 09:59 AM
Not much is folding the flop. I'd check behind.

As played I'd probably give up on river. No reads on whether they can lay down hands and since most people can't, I'd give respect.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 10:38 AM
Flop c-bet is OK but pretty marginal. Not a good board to c-bet (smacks the callers' ranges rather than ours) and we're 3-way, but we do have good equity if called so that makes it marginal rather than bad for me.

I do think the turn double-barrel is bad. We got called by two players on the flop, even with the Ad blocker there's a pretty good chance we're up against a flush draw. I know we picked up equity here, but I don't think we get enough folds to justify the second barrel. In fact, while I know people don't like poker rules, I would feel pretty comfortable saying don't double barrel after two people call your c-bet and the flush comes in.

I don't like a river barrel for the same reason I don't like the turn barrel. It's just way too optimistic to expect that we get two folds here betting $200 into a $300 pot.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 12:09 PM
At a table where the action has died down I probably also open smallish preflop with A9o in the CO, but I also don't think it's a crime to simply fold it.

I also bet the flop. We have some equity and we can fold out underpairs and a couple of better Ax hands. It can also be a value bet against certain hands (draws that our A high is ahead of) or simply protecting our equity if our hand is actually best. I'm done with the hand UI when they both call.

The most obvious draw got there on the turn, and with both of them calling the flop there is a somewhat decent chance one of them has it. I just check the turn and hope I get a free card and back into the winner.

Getting people to fold flushes is hard. We only have 60% of a PSB left. There's also a chance someone actually has the had we're about to rep (i.e. a set that slowplayed the flop, got scared on the turn, and is now ready to play for the rest of their chips). I gave up on the turn and I give up here.

Part of me thinks I give up too easily, and that I should be using the tight nut-peddling image I've built up over the years to triple barrel more. But another part of me thinks that is still pure spew.

ETA: Surprised we have some advocates for checking the flop; reasons?

GcluelessspewnoobG
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
At a table where the action has died down I probably also open smallish preflop with A9o in the CO, but I also don't think it's a crime to simply fold it.

I also bet the flop. We have some equity and we can fold out underpairs and a couple of better Ax hands. It can also be a value bet against certain hands (draws that our A high is ahead of) or simply protecting our equity if our hand is actually best. I'm done with the hand UI when they both call.

The most obvious draw got there on the turn, and with both of them calling the flop there is a somewhat decent chance one of them has it. I just check the turn and hope I get a free card and back into the winner.

Getting people to fold flushes is hard. We only have 60% of a PSB left. There's also a chance someone actually has the had we're about to rep (i.e. a set that slowplayed the flop, got scared on the turn, and is now ready to play for the rest of their chips). I gave up on the turn and I give up here.

Part of me thinks I give up too easily, and that I should be using the tight nut-peddling image I've built up over the years to triple barrel more. But another part of me thinks that is still pure spew.

ETA: Surprised we have some advocates for checking the flop; reasons?

GcluelessspewnoobG
Flop is close, but it really does smack the range of our callers. Not getting a J to fold, probably getting called by a T too. A lot of other random hands like pair+GS call us too, as does diamonds. Close because we have equity, with our OESD, but we see hands like J9, T9 and 98 a lot here as well which have us decimated. So, I don't hate the c-bet but like checking slightly more. Would c-bet heads up
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 12:23 PM
I agree that a cbet is likely called by a J/T.

But underpairs will have a hard time calling, as will AK/AQ. The board is drawy so there is a chance we actually get called by worse. And A high is often the best hand here, so we're simply betting to protect our equity. And on top of all that we have an ok draw ourselves. Taking this down on the flop (which a cbet 3ways will often do) would be a fantastic result.

I would basically not cbet this only if one of my opponents was uber raisey (cuz I don't want to get blown off my equity).

Gotherwise,I'mcbettingthis100%ofthetimeG
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 01:06 PM
empty the clip it's not that big a mistake, lots of missed fd fold, Jx will get folded occasionally. worst case you get called show down a bluff and later, reap rewards.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberpron
empty the clip it's not that big a mistake, lots of missed fd fold, Jx will get folded occasionally. worst case you get called show down a bluff and later, reap rewards.
Why would Jx call turn, fold river here. This is a good river for Jx, and puts it in front of T8. Also, the flush draw got there on the turn, not a lot of one card flush draws out there other than KQ with one diamond, which we're ahead of anyway.

Ask yourself what hands a V plays like this that fold river. Tx with the Kd or Qd maybe.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
Why would Jx call turn, fold river here. This is a good river for Jx, and puts it in front of T8. Also, the flush draw got there on the turn, not a lot of one card flush draws out there other than KQ with one diamond, which we're ahead of anyway.

Ask yourself what hands a V plays like this that fold river. Tx with the Kd or Qd maybe.
there are two fds and neither got there; the point is that Jx might fold sometimes, so do the math. Tx given both V descriptions is probably limited to combos of QT/T9 that missed (and we block one of them with 9c).

it's also a rather inexpensive bluff. we've got a sizable bet left (about 2/3 psb), which ups fe somewhat. all in all i don't care if i get called in this spot, because i doubt it's happening more than 25% of the time, and V is getting about 200 to win 700, which is more than that.

edit, i can't tell diamonds from hearts, fourcolor deck ftw

Last edited by uberpron; 02-03-2017 at 01:49 PM.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberpron
there are two fds and neither got there; the point is that Jx might fold sometimes, so do the math. Tx given both V descriptions is probably limited to combos of QT/T9 that missed (and we block one of them with 9c).

it's also a rather inexpensive bluff. we've got a sizable bet left (about 2/3 psb), which ups fe somewhat. all in all i don't care if i get called in this spot, because i doubt it's happening more than 25% of the time, and V is getting about 200 to win 700, which is more than that.
What are you talking about, the diamond draw got there on the turn?
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
What are you talking about, the diamond draw got there on the turn?
ah fk me you're right
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 02:18 PM
Flop decision is close but with 3 players I think I prefer a check.

On the turn a check seems way better. The FD got there, and we turned additional equity that we'd like to realize. I don't think many hands that called that flop are folding that turn.

On the river I would just shut down. We don't even have a PSB left and there are two opponents our bluff needs to get through. Check.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote
02-03-2017 , 02:21 PM
With Ad and 9 we block too many draws. Likely one of them has at least 2nd pair. Maybe even a slowplayed flopped 2 pair. This might be one of those "hero give up" spots I always here about when I'm tempted to try and blast someone off what seems like a capped range otr. I'm not a huge fan of the shove but not a massive opponent either.
1/3 Double barreled myself to river Quote

      
m