Hi all, new to the forum, so I just want to say thanks in advance for your input. Anyway, to the hand...

7 handed at 1/3 table.

V1 (sb) ~$150: middle age guy, has been playing pretty passive and limping a lot to try and see a lot of flops for cheap. Has been card dead and I think it's putting him on tilt. A few hands ago, he said "**** it, I want to play a hand" and called a 20$ pf raise OOP, and showed down Jh9h.

V2 (right of the CO) ~$500: mid 30s male. super fishy and crazy aggressive. I've been at the table for an hour and a half, and in that time he's played 60+% of his hands and 3 bets pf often. Will call with literally any two cards pf and any pair post flop. He showed down K3 offsuit earlier after he called a flop and turn bet with low pair and hit a king on the river. Has been forced to show down at least one bluff. Been stealing lots of pots due to his aggression.

Hero (BTN) ~200$: early 20s male. TAGish image. I'm raising often pf when i open and have usually been betting aggressively post flop, though I've been limping in good position in MW pots and folding to much pressure.

Folds around to V2 who raises to 12$. Hero has AcAd. I call (I debated 3-betting here, but it never happens at this table and I haven't done it. I figure one of the blinds will fold and I'm fine playing this hand IP against two weak players. I think a 3 bet is just too big of a tell) SB calls, BB folds.

Flop (~35 after rake): 6h 3h 6d. V1 checks, V2 bets 10, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn (~65): Jd. V1 checks, V2 bets 35, Hero calls, sb calls.

River (~170): Kh, completes the flush draw. V1 checks again, V2 bets 40. V1 looks anxious and seems like he's going to fold.

Hero?? call, raise, shove? (Folding is pretty much out of the question with 7:1 pot odds). I highly doubt he has a flush given his line of betting here.

Looking back I feel I played really passively. Should I raise the flop and/or turn? I know I need more pressure on the flush draws, but either V could be playing any two cards, and I was weary of something like A6, 33, or JJ. So I was (overly) cautious.

Pre - Calling is correct if you haven't set up a 3-bet dynamic with this guy. (3-betting him light to set up this situation is something to work towards.) He'll probably bet for you post flop. You should, given stacks, be able to GII anyway if things go right.

Flop - this is tough. It's unfortunate villain isn't betting more. Doesn't feel like he's trying to steal, more like he's blocking. Letting these guys bet into you is the way to beat these guys, but that plan isn't working. Bump it up to $30.

Villain plays 60%. Does he usually open raise rather than limp? I am assuming he does... He can have a six before the flop, but that looks less likely after.

Turn - It would be great to just call him down, but again he's betting too small for that. Raise.

River - Call and fold to a raise from V1. Very likely you are behind. The play of both villain's is consistent w/ FD's. It's hard to imagine what else V1 has, and why would he be nervous if he planned to fold? If V1 raises, he has the flush close to 100% of the time.

Also, don't be so sure V2 is a fish. (Unless his betsizing in this hand is typical for him...)

Even though I like that we have position on the aggro guy, I fear we are almost too close to his immediate left in that he'll blow us out of a lot of hands preflop (my goal in NL is to see as many flops as I can with poor players). I might try to move across the table from him, where it will be easier to overcall multiple callers with some hands.

There's pros and cons to flatting versus reraising. Flatting definitely disguises our hand and we'll allow an aggro guy to probably bet into us postflop. But it also creates an SPR HU pot of ~8ish where we might not be as cool stacking off postflop, even against this guy, plus might invite the blinds along (where things could get weird multiway). Anyways, this guy seems to like to see flops, so I think I would ABC it here and just 3bet to $35 and stack off postflop. I don't think flatting is horrible by any means, but we're going to have to grit out teeth postflop and probably stack off on any board (but for just 66bbs, I'm also ok with that plan).

SPR is 5ish so it will be trivially easy to get in stacks, especially in position. I'd feel totally committed so now it's just a matter of how to get in stacks. On dry boards, I'd probably lean towards calling down and getting stacks in on the river since there are no scare cards to kill the action and Villain could easily barrel air. However, on this board a flush card might screw things up. I'd probably lean towards a raise on the flop and hopefully he spazzes.

With blind coming along on the flop, I think we have to raise turn now. Again, on a dry board, I wouldn't hate the slowplay.

I probably go for max value on the river (which was our slowplay plan all along) and shove the river (which isn't that big of a bet since it's only for 3/4 PSB).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Let me start off by saying you broke down the tells of both players well. However, your strategy against both of them can use some work.

Preflop, definitely raise when up against loose players. You will get more action than not.

Flop, raising the LAG to see where you were would have been better play. You raise him and if there is any re raise or call. You check/fold it down..

Turn, you should fold here as someone likely has a six.

River, you should fold.

As played, you have no idea what they have. And likely some one has a six and on river now a flush

In conclusion, you wrote about these two players like you had a good read on them. What you need to think about is what cards these two players are playing with from your read. And since SB is on "tilt" he would probably call a 3 bet with alot of cards.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using 2+2 Forums

Edit: read description of opponent.

3 bet preflop. Your hand is the nuts and you have a guy who is calling all 3-bets liberally and he might 4-bet you given position dynamics. Not 3-betting here is throwing away money (like literally, you are basically giving the guy at least $20 100% of the time and a far bigger number a big % of the time (like 25+%).

This is a pretty typical bet size for him. He's been betting 30-40 on the flop or turn when no one has shown aggression, but when re-raised he folds most of time.

Also, V1 tends to bet his large hands for value. So I didn't expect him to have a flush on the river- I imagine he would have bet instead of checking. Same for V2; he's showed down a couple of straights and a full house, and he didn't try to disguise those hands whatsoever. Neither player has struck me as particularly trappy.

First, thank you for the clarification on the flop and turn raising. I had a feeling after the hand that's what was needed. Lots of good stuff here in general, thanks everyone.

RESULT:

I called, V1 folded. V2 showed down A high.

Looking back, I think my lack of direction actually induced a dumb bluff from V2. So this unintentionally came out in my favor.

No idea what V1 had, I'd guess a mid-range pp.

Definitely reraising this pre, and not that large.

We want callers. Get the SPR down to 1-3 and print manies at the teable

Grunch

I definitely would've been looking to set this hand up to double here. I understand what you're saying about them being bad and having position w the preflop nuts, but post flop the majority of the time you only have 1 pair.

Aggressive people (at least at these stakes) make excuses to play hands, not to fold them, in general. I would much prefer to raise to $45 pre, bet $70 otf, jam turn for $85. It's easy for us to get the money in good this way and not have to worry about RIO getting the best of us. When we just call preflop and get stacks in I would say that it's equal parts overplaying by our opponents/we are beat and crying call.

As played the odds on river alone seem like a call. A raise over reps our hand and makes us only get called by better imo.

I´d 3bet pf because I expect these goofballs to give you action. As played I like a raise on the turn for value and to make V1 pay with his likely flushdraw.

The beauty of 3betting players like V2 is that because they 3 bet light all the time, they expect others to do so and thus won´t give you credit for a big hand. Now is the chance to build a big pot and try to double up. BTW, what is the max BI? Why do we only have $200?

I also like GG advice about looking for a seat on the other side of the table.

Whatever you do, don't listen to this. Folding the turn would be very very bad.

3-betting pre seems like a good way to get more into the pot pre against this player.

As played, call.

stopped reading after you flatted the 10 on the flop.

you have to make this 55+ every time.

the pot is big enough. you got money out of the blinds and you underrepped your hand find, but now that you have hearts out there, and a 4,5 open ender, take it down or extract money from the draws.

OP, this line is absurdly weak and misses loads of value with AA.

We should be 3-betting our best hands (JJ+, AK) for value. If they fold, the correct response is to start 3-bet bluffing, NOT to stop 3-betting our good hands.

Raise pre.

As played, raise flop. We want to stack 77-KK here. If, say, a jack comes it will be harder to stack 88.

As played, raise turn.

As played, call river. At this point people will be mubsy with the flush in and we won't get many calls from worse.

Please please please play AA more straightforwardly and aggressively from now on so that you make more money.

Grunch.

Tricky plays make for tricky pots.

Aggro-fish do not fold to 3!s. Certainly not to some kid. If Aggro-fish is thinking about you at all he's assuming that you are sick of how awesome he is playing and raising to muscle him out of the pot and he will show you.

3! pre, get one or two calls, bet for value. He will call any flop bet if he has a piece of the board. If things get a little scary looking on the turn you can always check back for pot control and sigh-call to most of his river bets because he has a ton of bluffs in his range or could be value betting a worse pair.

If you decide to flat pre, do so with a plan of how you want to play a flop that is dry, a flop that is draw heavy or full of Broadway cards, and a flop that is paired. The answer to all is usually raise after aggressor c-bets.

As played you get no more $ from someone with less than AA on the river so just call.

Odds are this is exactly what everyone else said.

You have under 70bb!! I am pretty much never flatting pre against anyone with such shallow effective stacks!! let alone these 2!! Pop it back up to 30 and make sure the money is in by the river. If you get called in two spots you can have it in by the turn.