400 effective stacks

Very soft table

H: should have a TAG image but no one cares

OTTH two limps to me I limp with 7h6h HJ limps cutoff 15 button folds blinds fold

Limpers call I call and HJ calls

(75) flop 4h5s7d

Checks around

Turn Ah

Checks to cutoff who makes it 25 limper calls other limper calls I make it 125

Folds back to one limper he calls

(375) river 8h

I jam 250

Thoughts?

At $400 effective calling a $15 raise is thin but multiple limpers have already called so it's OK.
Flop is standard. If the original raiser is passive and looks like they have given up you could also donk this but checking should be the majority play.
On the turn you can make a better case for leading yourself. The cutoff is likely to check this down even if they hit the ace and you now have a combo draw.
On the river it's a matter of knowing something about remaining villain. What was his turn calling range? Will he call the jam with worse? Since both straights and flushes got there on river it is likely to get paid by anything worse then straights. Against many opponents a $100 suck bet is better but a lot of 1/3 players are very sticky so it's a live read situation.

Lead turn for $45

As played, I bet $125 again on the river. I think it gets called by worse at least 2x as often as a $250 bet.

Well the turn will very rarely the turn gets checked through

I think most villains could fold and the bet is “scary” to a lot of them.

Seems like a good spot to maximize fold equity with tons of outs if called

I also think multiway this is a flop i donk maybe half of the time for $50. As far as flops gofor your hand, this is as close to as good as it gets. You block top set and the nuts also

I know it’s almost always wrong, but this setup seems like one of those rare instances that call out for a donk bet on the flop.

We would do it without sets and straights just because it’s going to check through A LOT (it’s so unlikely CO will c-bet THIS board with THIS many opponents). So you’d be missing a Street of value.

Since we can’t only donk bet our value hands, we need to have SOME bluffs, and your hand is the perfect candidate: if you do it with EVERY 67 you’re donking too much, so only do it on rainbow boards when you have a backdoor flush draw!

(And of course, even better, this isn’t even a pure bluff since you do have top pair which might be good on its own. Denying equity to all the overcards out there isn’t the worst thing in the world. Just make sure you aren’t donking with EVERY top pair hand or else you really will be a donk!)

This is a very minor quibble. As played it’s fine, including River shove, his range for calling the Turn check-raise is very narrow—big hands or big draws—so on the River we are targeting straights and 2-pair/sets, and of course we want to use a big sizing against those hands.

I think there’s a chance you’re value-owning yourself against the nut-flush here, but that’s of no concern since,

1) our hand is waaaay too strong to check back and

2) if we only bet $100 on the River and got check-raised we’d be calling anyway.

So since we go broke no matter what in those spots, all we have to do now is maximize value when we are ahead.

Flop is a pretty standard lead unless pfr overcbets.

Raise pre, bet flop, bet turn, bet river. Easy game.

I think 67s is a bad hand to limp with from MP because first, you don't have position and second, you let all the shitty suited hands that beat you see the flop. In general, your hand will not realize its equity due to lack of position while being dominated often. Either folding or raising are preferable IMO.

Donk on the flop is fine, donk on the turn fine, the way you played turn is fine, but if you lost to Kh3h or Qh4h maybe not a cooler.

On the river, I am not sure how can a sentient being can call with worse on a 4 card straight, 3 flush board in which you raised on turn and you have absolutely no bluffs I can think off. Maybe check call to induce worse to bet, but then again this is 1/3, so maybe someone still finds a call with a random two pair I dunno.

I'm in camp raise with any suited connectors 56 and higher when proceeded by limps or folds. The limps are saying they are weak so make them pay or fold. If they 4!, then they are playing their KK+ face up (again assuming this is the normal weak bottom stakes game).
Assuming I haven't shown down some of the silly starters that are in my range, everyone is going to put me on at least broadway type cards or better. When I CB that flop, they'll prob put me on an overpair which is just perfect for me.

I raise larger than what is normally advocated here because I want a caller or two, not four or five which is typical in most of my 1/2 or 1/3 games when the limper crowd is faced with a $7 - 10 bet. So if you're on a $1-2, I would probably go to $15, but that's having watched to see what table dynamics are like.

Then I would bet every chance the action got to me unless I had a read than one of my rare V's would see a check vs that connected board as a sign of weakness and he would make a move at the pot.

BTW - I'm playing LAG. But if I was playing TAG, I would still play this hand the same way, only less often by playing 67su or higher and only from LP. If the table is active and I don't think a limp would get thru, I fold. If I think the limp will get thru, I raise. It makes poker like much more simple.

If there was a raiser prior to me, as a TAG, I fold, as a LAG, it is still raise or fold, it really depends on my read of the bettor's willingness to fold to aggression.



TL;DR - see DreamCrusher's post above - "Raise pre, bet flop, bet turn, bet river. Easy game."

Unless every hand is being limped around and the table is just all massive payoff stations, preflop is too loose, imo. I fold the first time. This hand also has a lot of RIO issues, so playing it OOP in a small handcuffing SPR multiway also makes it a fold to the raise too, imo. ETA: Also not on board with raise camp either, keeping in mind there was a raise and we still went 5ways (i.e. not really sure what a raise accomplishes nor do I think having initiative in a very multiway pot OOP is useful).

I'm cool with check/evaluating the flop.

I'm cool with checking the turn as well. The A is often going to hit the CO preflop raiser, plus we still have the HJ who could have been sandbagging the flop.

Facing this rather timid action (a 1/3 PSB and 2 calls) I could get on board with a big check/raise here if we think we have FE (it really depends on what a "soft" table is, noting I typically take "soft" as meaning everyone pays off).

So the limper check to us? I'm cool with a 2/3 PSB jam here as 6x / other straights won't be able to fold, and we might even get looked up by two pair once and while too.

GcluelessNLnoobG

We jam and get snapped by Jh2h.. wow

The result is all due to preflop, imo: RIO is a thing and 76sooted could be its poster boy.

Gnothatin',justsayin'G

So do you think this is an instance of you're just running bad?

This is exactly why if you are going to play this hand, you raise pre and you raise an amount that gets rid of weak limpers. You'll still lose with it sometimes, but you probably wouldn't have lost this time.

If you had folded pre bc you didn't think you had a raise worthy hand, you're fine of course. And that's why those who advocate the fold are absolutely right. You have a middling hand that will occasionally make its best possible result but still not be good enough.

If you played this hand passively at any stage, you were destined to lose, however, if you were super passive, you probably would have lost less.

I realize you're also cool with folding preflop, and not to overly harp on the raise-preflop camp, but it still seems super bad to me. After 2 limpers in a "very soft" game, we're going to have to raise it to like 10+x... which is horrible in this early of position.

GimoG

Fair comment. I'm only doing this when I know the table dynamics. In most of my games, if I raise to $15, I'm going to get 0 to 2 callers. But occasionally there are games where a couple of players are quite capable of a 3! wide, so I would be crazy to use that play with such a weak holding from EP or MP.

Fortunately for my LAG style, at most tables, I'm virtually never seeing a 3!, maybe one or twice in a 6+ hour session. So the odds of me getting away with this sort of theft are high. .
Here's what I see as more typical. I recently 3! a very OMC kind of guy. It was my first couple of orbits, but I know him well. He bets $15 over 2 limpers. That means he has prime cards, QQ+ and maybe AKsu. I raise to $45 with 57su and be only calls. Why does he only call with KK, bc he will only be bold with AA. He automatically thinks I have AX and he wants to be sure the flop doesn't have an A before he's willing to risk bigger funds.

My plan to bluff him off his hand was ruined when I got a lucky flop that tripped thru the 7. But regardless of those results, he lost the hand bc he wasn't willing to play with any sort of normal reasonable aggression.

Again I'll say OP's hand is a good illustration of the old rule, if you can't raise, don't call.

Yeah it's tough to avoid results-based analysis. Preflop has been covered well by Deke and GG and I think is somewhat table-dependent.

A flop donk maybe folds out the limper V and I think makes sense here as others have observed. Even if we get raised we probably have enough equity/IO to call against overpairs.

H's big turn bet should fold anything but AxKh/Qh, two-pair and NFDs with gutshots. But on river, we have obviously compressed the limper's range to these hands, so we really can't jam, since V has more combos of flushes that beat us than value that we beat.

So yes it's a cooler but we overplayed our hand. Yes V overplayed his too, but this happens at these stakes.

I wonder if it's better to just call turn getting 6-1 direct odds and hoping to make a straight or bink a 7 on river. We really don't want to make a flush and the big turn bet risks us getting blown off our equity if one of the Vs xr jams.

Didn't read results. If the table is soft and you get get position raise preflop an amount that will get 1-2 callers only.

FLOP I'd bet that flop. That is a terrifying board for the preflop raiser and there is almost zero chance he will raise you. You can set your price.
If you get XRed its an easy fold. You have a hand that is beat now and won't get paid. Likely the XRer will already have the straight as recs don't XR sets if there are nuts showing on the board. If the preflop raiser folds GREAT! Now you can play on.

TURN Don't XR. PR raiser bet the ace into many people... he isn't folding to a XR so whats the point? Fine you have 9 + 6 + 5 outs for 20 outs... you are still behind his AK, AQ. If you were to raise to get him to fold you would raise a lot more. He isn't folding for $100 when the pot is now $225. You can bet to set your price. Another option is XC and let some other rec try and catch the straight when you have a FD to boot.

RIVER Pot is $325 and you have $260 left. The river is the 8h that completes the straight and the flush. Unless you know this guy can't let do of AK I wouldn't shove. $260 is a huge amount at 1/2. Probably 1/2p is about right to get a crying call. If we get jammed on it is an easy fold.

to clarify, 1/2p bet, fold to jam for 160 more?