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1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit 1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit

04-01-2012 , 07:48 PM
Immediate history, the hand just before that, I 4bet the drunk fish with AKo, we got it in for 150bb pre, he sucks out with Q2s...
Hero (325$): QQ UTG limps (I never do that but drunk guy to my right in the SB is raising every single hand) and not folding...
Ubernit: (500$) Young chick, hot, very very very straight forward, gets frisky with me in some spots, i've been raising her alot and she made some frustrated calls earlier in the session...she's very nitty, thinking on level 1...

Hero (325$): QQ UTG limps
Ubernit: (500$) limps MP
All folds!!

Flop 632r
I lead out 5$, she raises to 17$...we had the exact same scenario before, and I couldn't get her to fold 77...
I re-raise to 48$, knowing that her range has alot of mid pp and she doesn't fold to me anymore....
She calls

Turn 5
She has no 4's in her range, I open shove the turn...Thoughts?
Spoiler:
I know that one liners to a straight scare nits, even if I have zero 4's in my range, other than 45 ofc

I know I should raise pre, but I wanted to get it in with the maniac acting all steamy about the last hand...
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 07:51 PM
You're not getting called by worse...

Quote:
Young chick, hot, very very very straight
Why not inflate pot pre and open? You'll still be able to iso-shove against SB, and if the (thinly-veiled brag at interacting with coed) MP Villain comes along, you secure her dead maney.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi
You're not getting called by worse...
But Am I ever getting called?
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 07:56 PM
No -- which is a problem, as you fold out her entire mid-pp range that didn't connect, leaving only sets and 44.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi
No -- which is a problem, as you fold out her entire mid-pp range that didn't connect, leaving only sets and 44.
There is no way she has 44 given the flop action...

Would a 75$ bet be a better line to get value from mid pp?
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:03 PM
You have $230ish OTT, pot is about 105, 60 sets up about 3/4 PSB OTR, seems more conducive to keeping V's weaker holdings in.

What is her range in your estimate?

EDIT: is this a thin or fat value situation, in other words...
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:05 PM
highly weighted towards pp over to the board, 77-JJ
some random 2 pairs, low sets
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
highly weighted towards pp over to the board, 77-JJ
some random 2 pairs, low sets
100,000 iterations from free poker range calculator at Poker Ranges:

Hero's hand: Q Q | Board: 6 3 2 5
Range: 22-33, 55, 77-JJ, 5c6c, 5d6d, 5h6h, 5s6s, 3c6c, 3d6d, 3h6h, 3s6s, 3c5c, 3d5d, 3h5h, 3s5s, 2c3c, 2d3d, 2h3h, 2s3s

Overall Odds:
Win: 58.8%
Tie: 8.3%
Lose: 32.9%
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:16 PM
thin, so looks like a clear bet-fold given V's description -- so even 45-55 seems better sizing OTT. Definitely not shoving.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 10:56 AM
OP re-evaluated her range after she called the flop 3-bet. Felt she was really strong, but thought she couldn't call his shove with a 4. Turned his QQ into a bluff. I think it's fine if we're sure villian is a postflop nit and can't hand read well.

Also, pics or she wasn't hot.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 11:18 AM
I don't understand why we are turning our hand into a bluff if villain can't have a 4 .....

Are we hoping to fold out a set or something?

I don't mind b/f but im never shoving
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 11:59 AM
why did you shove? for value or as a bluff?
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 12:29 PM
Ok, I didn't have stove on me, but on the fly I figured that I'm 50/50 vs her range, so my sd EV is probably neutral, but if I shove, I know she's never calling, so that seemed like a more EV spot...
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
Ok, I didn't have stove on me, but on the fly I figured that I'm 50/50 vs her range, so my sd EV is probably neutral, but if I shove, I know she's never calling, so that seemed like a more EV spot...
was this thinking flawed?
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-02-2012 , 05:28 PM
It doesn't maximize, if you're 50/50 it's a classic thin value situation and therefore more +EV to bet/fold.

Last edited by scelsi; 04-02-2012 at 05:36 PM.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 11:33 AM
Just to post results, she tanked for a while, and said nice hand, and folded 66 face up...
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 12:35 PM
If you are this sophisticated about your poker ,why are you playing 1-2 where it's mostly a waste of time? If it's a BR problem, well I see that, otherwise move up to where it makes more of a difference. GL to you sir
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit
If you are this sophisticated about your poker ,why are you playing 1-2 where it's mostly a waste of time? If it's a BR problem, well I see that, otherwise move up to where it makes more of a difference. GL to you sir
whatever
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 01:00 PM
I'm cool with preflop plan; unlucky it didn't work out.

This might be place where I lose value, but when a straightforward player raises my overpair on the flop, my first thought is folding, not 3betting. On this board, and due to preflop limp, I'm not folding. But I'm not exactly thrilled about 3betting and playing for stacks either, although as I say, I could really be losing a lotta value here, especially against this villain who doesn't seem to want to fold to us. Are we folding to a shove? I might just call down, or even donk/donk. Again, I might be too happy with winning mediocre sized pots with mediocre type hands (which a one pair hand is), so maybe playing for stacks is ok here?

As played, I don't like the shove because I just don't think she calls with worse hands enough. I probably just bet/bet smallish in order to get value from worse hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
As played, I don't like the shove because I just don't think she calls with worse hands enough. I probably just bet/bet smallish in order to get value from worse hands.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Yeah I just thought she can't call at all, so i'm folding out everything, hands that beat me and hands I beat...

Since everybody agrees shoving was bad I guess it was
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 04:58 PM
Bluffing someone who has gotten frisky with you and has "made some calls" is not usually a good play once she has already shown aggression.

You got pretty lucky here. I can't believe she folded top set.
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote
04-03-2012 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
Bluffing someone who has gotten frisky with you and has "made some calls" is not usually a good play once she has already shown aggression.

You got pretty lucky here. I can't believe she folded top set.
I agree I ran into the very top of her range....and if she actually reads the hand (which my read says she doesn't), i never have a straight, why the hell do i shove a straight ott?

I guess I just over-used the information I had
1/2NL: QQ with interesting dynamics vs bad nit Quote

      
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