1/2NL: KK facing lots of PF action 350bb deep - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

1/2NL: KK facing lots of PF action 350bb deep

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 2

1 2

Page 2 of 2

1 2

01-01-2014 , 04:42 PM

#26

slimshady1999

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 4,313

Best case scenario IMO, Against two villains w/ QQ+, AK+ you have 37%. Against one villain w/ QQ+ and another w/ QQ+, AK+ you have 30%. Against two villains w/ QQ+ you have 23%. I don't think folding pre is too nitty either. You can't simply set mine because you could be up against QQ some of the time.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 06:01 PM

#27

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

We have a cold 4b and a cold-call to a 4b from relatively unknowns in live 1/2NL.

Further, if there is any action remaining post flop, we'll be OOP.

Shove or fold, IMO. Not sure which one I chose more often.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 06:36 PM

#28

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

So you think calling is completely out if the question? When we are calling 50 more to win 235 plus the implied odds? That seems bad , it's between flat or shove IMO.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 08:02 PM

#29

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapidator

What sort of information are you basing this on?
What could possibly lead you to think that either shoving or folding is best here?
What I'm trying to ask is how do you go from that inflection point of thinking this is a fold but then deciding it's a shove instead? Is it a calling range decision? Is it an "equity against two people" decision, is it a "we don't want to be OOP for the whole hand" decision. I just don't get how it can be either or. But never in the middle.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 08:16 PM

#30

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

^ see Venice's post.

I'm probably looking to fold more often in this spot.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 08:25 PM

#31

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by venice10

So our only question is how do we get weaker hands to put their stacks in the best way. IMO, it is a shove. Once the flop comes, anyone "set mining" with JJ or looking to hit with AK who misses is c/f. We don't get their money. The shove looks weaker than a 5bet. Lots of people will talk themselves into the call because you have AK and they are ahead.

You think we get more weaker hands to call a 5bet shove for 350bb than if we flat, see a flop, let someone bet and then stick it in?

I agree that we have no room to move post flop, but if we flat that would be the entire idea. We are essentially risking $50 by calling, looking for a decent flop to take both of their stacks.

I want them to call, I want to check, have them invest another $125-$175 on the flop, then we stick it down their throat. And they either give up the hand with JJ (which if they cold 4bet or cold called pre flop, seems unlikely they would) or they call off with 10% equity. And we rape them.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 11:25 PM

#32

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Results:

Spoiler:

Quote

01-01-2014 , 11:36 PM

#33

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

V 2 is a sneaky SOB. No one ranges him for AA there but IMO he should of just shoved over your 5 bet. This is the perfect example of why you should never fold KK pre flop.... You will just end up making quads against AA anyways.

Quote

01-01-2014 , 11:38 PM

#34

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,878

Does this confirm what we thought? Or are the results irrelevant?

Spoiler:

Quote

01-02-2014 , 12:02 AM

#35

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed

V 2 is a sneaky SOB. No one ranges him for AA there ...

wait... wat? Did you think he was cold-calling a 4b with 76s?

Quote

01-02-2014 , 12:13 AM

#36

a12

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

Results:

Spoiler:

Nh and Wp. Tough spot. I'd also take a note of V2 if you play him again.

Quote

01-02-2014 , 10:01 AM

#37

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,704

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed

V 2 is a sneaky SOB. No one ranges him for AA there

Ummm, no! Look at post #13. I'm not even a good poker player, so if I got to that conclusion, I imagine a lot of other people get there too

Quote

01-02-2014 , 11:12 AM

#38

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapidator

wait... wat? Did you think he was cold-calling a 4b with 76s?

I was thinking more like AKs QQ maybe JJ and the unlikely KK. I do love sarcasm though... In all seriousness tho I don't know of many people that would cold call a 4 bet with AA. Especially not just call a 5 bet once hero puts in 1/3 effective stacks.

Quote

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last