Hand at Red Rock...

Hero ($520): mid 20s reg, both Vs are regs and know I'm a solid winner. TAGish bordering on LAG game. Most regs see me as LAG.

V1 ($500ish): plays mostly standard preflop, can be super aggro post when he has a big hand, big draw, or is trying to protect against a draw. Will overbet pots, brings the action to most tables. Thinks I'm a professional and usually table changes away from me. Couple weeks ago I raised AA to $15 with $500 effective, he calls with two others. Flop comes K52sxs, I bet $30 he raises to $100, I shove, he snap calls with 35ss and I hold.

V2 ($320): older guy, pretty passive preflop but will overbet pots too just like V1. Earlier he donked flop and overbet shoved turn with 88 on K85Qcchh board when I had KJ and folded turn.

Hero dealt KK in MP. V2 limps UTG+2, hero raises to $15 on his direct left. V1 calls in late position, V2 pretty quickly announces all in. Call or fold?

Folding is a viable option considering hes passive pre flop and old. I folded KK once pre flop playing live 1-2 and was quickly showed AA. Ive only been able to do it once but I was % 99 sure villain had it and I'd be drawing to 2 outs. I'd probably call here though because he just shoved instead of 3 betting. Right or wrong I'd put him on QQ/AK based on the huge over bet.

I'm not that good to fold KK preflop, especially live in a 1/2 game but the big question here is what is V2 raise percentage preflop. I have seen multiple times live though players do love to limp 3bet shove AA especially from early position because they figure someone behind them will raise preflop. Need more of a history of V2 preflop but I say call sigh and reload to the max buy in

If he never has AK or QQ then fold.

Sounds ridiculous to say but its da tooth.

Why does he never have qq tho? Don't think I can fold vs this idiot

i call

To me, this looks like villain has a "decent" hand (not necessarily the nuts) and realizes he can get outplayed by better players post flop so he wants to either take it down pre or see five cards. If I am convinced of this read (obv have to be at the table) then it's a call for me.

if the action was something like v raises, hero 3bets, villain shoves then I am more apt to tank with my decision much more

Grunch:

If he has it, pay him. I've seen people make this move with hands like AK, QQ, and even KT once. (The guy who had QQ was also passive preflop--he limp/shoved the button for $200 effective.) It would be tough for me if V1 shoved because of how much deeper he is, but I'd call V2.

Might fold here. This is assuming I have never seen him do anything even close to this before where aa was not shown down. He is never bluffing, old guys do not usually do this with ak and rarely do with queens.

I used to just sigh call these spots and almost always get shown AA exactly. You play with the guy, if he's not on tilt and really is passive post just fold. Your not giving up anything and based on how it seems they play post it's prob even more +ev to fold. I have folded KK so many times now in these kind of games, it's almost an auto muck for me in these spots. Best part is I never show what I folded and can almost always get them to show me

This.

How many times have you seen an older play limp 3-bet without KK+ (usually he has AA)? In this case not only did he limp 3-bet but he limp shoved. The villain is most likely holding a big hand of which you really only beat his lower range (JJ, QQ and AKs). Without any other information folding pf with KK can't be terrible against this typically passive preflop villain. However, even with this information folding pf with KK is tough and so in this spot your feel for the game might pay off big either with a correct call or fold. Being a regular player your brain has gathered a ton of information about the game and the players which does add up over time to a sort of card sense and so incorporating this sense with the known information you should be able to get an idea for the correct play, which most likely is to fold. Card sense (not superstition or mind reading stuff) is not mathematical and certainly subject to much scrutiny and so it's correct to criticize the idea but in this situation there's the game data which includes you with KK, an older passive pf player who limp shoved and those types of players' normal ranges for taking such actions, as well as other less obvious card sense information which you've gathered both consciously and subconsciously. All of this information should help you to make this decision and by trusting yourself you might protect yourself from stubbornly calling this player with the second nut pair or folding to his QQ. What was your "instinct" telling you about this situation?

You need to call $305 more into a pot of $335. Roughly 1.1 to 1 (rounding up to make this easier). Break-even equity of 47.62% needed.

Hand 0: 49.995% 46.10% 03.89% 61573380 5199546.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 50.005% 46.11% 03.89% 61587240 5199546.00 { QQ+ }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.191% 54.62% 02.57% 117843360 5545566.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 42.809% 40.24% 02.57% 86815812 5545566.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }

This is a no regrets snap fold unless both of the following statements are true:

1. Villain perceives you to be a maniac type LAG. Not a TAG/LAG, but a bluffing maniac bully.
2. Villain is tilted and sick and tired of you running over the table.

Even then, you will see AA a decent percent of the time. Otherwise, this is AA about 99.995%.

V is never shoving AK here, not a chance.

Unless you are absolutely sure that this guy will not jam with JJ or QQ because "I have the best hand now and I just want to take it down before AK hits", you still have to call.

This screams AA in my opinion. Why waste 150 bb when it sounds like u have a solid feel for the situation. If this particular player is unimaginative this is never garbage, and basically polarized to KK or AA. I have folded KK before given the correct circumstances, just be glad u have only invested 30 dollars into this hand. It takes a lot of discipline to fold KK but sometimes it is correct just don't do what I've done And show the fold. I regretted that so much.

Results:

This is a classic example of the results not proving anything. You still haven't said how he would play QQ in this spot. And all he needs to have in his range besides AA/KK is QQ and you have to call.

He wouldn't shove QQ for $300+, that's why I folded. $200 sure I snap it off, $300...nah, don't think so. Even against QQ+ it's 50/50 so a tiny bit +EV, but when his range is more weighted towards AA than QQ it should be a fold I think. If he just raises pre or 3b a normal amount he probably gets all my money.

Why did you post this?

a) he really called and stacked off KK < AA and is now pretending he made the correct decision to fold in hindsight

b) its a sick brag yo

c) he's actually curious whether it was +ev to call

How are you so sure that he would not make this same play with QQ? Also, if he won't make the overshove with QQ for $300, what makes you equally sure that he would make the overshove with QQ for $200?

And it's been asked already, but if your reads are so sharp, why are you posting this hand at all?

To see what 2+2 thinks, and looks like the opinion is pretty split on this hand.

I've played with him a lot of times before, never seen him shove $300 into a $30 pot preflop with QQ. I do think he would shove $200 with QQ or maybe even JJ in the same spot. Just thought this was a weird spot with 150bb+ and the presence of V1 in the hand. FWIW this is the only time I can remember folding KK pre without having two other players all-in in front of me.

Presumably you have never seen him shove either $200 or $300 into a $30 pot with QQ. Yet you assume that he would with $200, but not $300? This is a read that is so specific that even if it is correct, it means that our opinions are worthless because you have a good enough read to know what to do no matter what anyone here says.