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1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK 1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK

03-07-2016 , 03:53 PM
Very loose 1-2 game, 10-handed.

Hero UTG (300) Has a super tight image. Pretty much haven't been involved in any meaningful hands. Had to fold AA in a 4 way pot when I bet and got raised on a 544 board. Didn't show, but table could assume I folded an overpair there.

V BB (Covers) MAWG, Running well. Loose player. Not overly agro. Rec player. Havent seem him 3bet once.

I limp in UTG with KK, knowing very well there will be a raise pre-flop.
UTG+2 raises to 15 (pretty small size for this table) gets 2 callers from loose players.
V in the BB makes it 60.
Hero UTG re-raises to 125.
All folds around to V in the BB who calls 125.

Before the flop V checks in the dark.

Flop comes As8s3d

Pot is around $300. I have $175 in my stack.

Hero?
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 04:00 PM
You should have raised more pre with the intention of gii. As played, I probably just shove now. I guess you could check behind and hope it gets checked down, but that's unlikely. You can't really check and then fold on the turn. He could have QQ, JJ or the other KK.

Not sure what you put V on if he has never 3bet pre -- especially since he decided to do it from the BB? Was UTG+2 raising a lot? He must have JJ+.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 04:21 PM
OP - if you push preflop, does that look more like AK than AA or KK?

Also, do you have the Ks?
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
OP - if you push preflop, does that look more like AK than AA or KK?

Also, do you have the Ks?
I have two red kings.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
You should have raised more pre with the intention of gii. As played, I probably just shove now. I guess you could check behind and hope it gets checked down, but that's unlikely. You can't really check and then fold on the turn. He could have QQ, JJ or the other KK.

Not sure what you put V on if he has never 3bet pre -- especially since he decided to do it from the BB? Was UTG+2 raising a lot? He must have JJ+.
Obviously I'm putting him on JJ+
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 04:59 PM
I stand by my statement, then. Raise more pre and either shove now or call his shove on turn or shove turn yourself.

(Edit: As to the JJ+ question, it is not obvious to me if it's JJ+ or AK, AA, KK only. Have you seen him 3bet? Is UTG+1 raising light?)

I guess if you check behind, he might think you are scared of the A and will bet. I just think there is too much invested to fold.

I think raising more pre would have made this much easier.

Last edited by Javanewt; 03-07-2016 at 05:08 PM.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I stand by my statement, then. Raise more pre and either shove now or call his shove on turn or shove turn yourself.

I guess if you check behind, he might think you are scared of the A and will bet. I just think there is too much invested to fold.

I think raising more pre would have made this much easier.
Yeah it's "easier" to raise more pre but is it the most +EV?

How big do I size my 4-bet? $175? $200? Seems like I will only get action from hands that beat me and fold out hands that I crush like QQ, JJ, AK
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 06:09 PM
If you are going to 4bet, you should be planning to commit yourself, so might as well make it $175 so the flop shove is a no-brainer. You can't 4bet as a min-bet and plan to fold to a 5bet. If you are not committing, just call his 3bet.

You basically min-bet and let him come in with anything, so now you are "stuck" with the A on the flop. It's not much different, but with only $125 left, the flop shove is simple.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 08:40 PM
I have zero problem with back shoving PF in this game. AA is a little more scarce wth this action which is meaningless anyway since you're gii always however you play this (outside of call, ck-f A high flops which is horrible) Also, BB has plenty of combos left to call when he's last to act with his JJ+/AKs/AKo
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-07-2016 , 09:04 PM
Check flop as played.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 12:18 AM
Just shove pre. If you don't get called by worse hardly ever then you need to start doing it with AK/TT-QQ vs people who can 3b without KK+

People have a hard time putting in money and folding. If he has AA you're losing it anyway.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 04:32 AM
I don't see the point of shoving the flop so we can fold all worse hands. What is he going to put is on so that he can call with QQ?

Check back and GII on all turns.

I'd also shove pre.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 04:40 AM
If you do this limp thing then shove 300 over the 60 all day. Making it 125 be crazy strong looking. At least you can have medium pairs, AQ here etc.

Also I'm interested in the fold to one raise on 544 with AA :O
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 02:14 PM
I am not sure what your original objective was in limp reraising? I assume you did this to get the most money out preflop. I'm not sure about you but, whenever I have KK, I think, if I get one or more callers, and an A hits, what is the plan. Hopefully you thought of this before you limped reraised, especially being that you might be out of position.

First, I think the 125 reraise was way too small. I'd probably just shove here instead.

AP, I'd probably check back flop and reevaluate turn.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 02:54 PM
I think the small RR is fine if you think he will fold worse PP´s to a big raise. SPR is very manageable. It would be very saddening if he folded JJ. Flop check is obv. Play poker OTT.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
Play poker OTT.
There is no more playing poker in this hand unless you consider checking it down playing poker -- or unless Hero spikes a K.
1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote
03-08-2016 , 04:28 PM
105 in pot pre when action gets back to you with 300 behind?

Rip pre AINEC.

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1-2NL 4-Bet Pot heads up with KK Quote

      
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