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1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot 1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot

02-22-2012 , 07:27 PM
Live $1/2 NL, full table 10 players. Standard PF raises at this table are usually $8 or $10, sometimes $12. Anything bigger is fairly significant.

Villian 1: SB, stack ~$230. Mid-30's white guy, looks European. Have only played with him maybe once before and a little bit this session. Impression is that he is at least a fairly solid player, able to think a bit.

Villian 2: BB, stack ~150. Asian guy, maybe also mid-30's. I've definitely played with him at least once before and think he is somewhat Loose-Aggro.

Hero: HJ seat, stack $225. Mid-30's white guy. Been at this table for a couple hours. I'm definitely not viewed as Loose or overly aggro. Probably image is somewhat tight.

The Hand:
Folds around to Hero, who finds black 10 10 in the HiJack seat. Hero raises to $10, CO folds, BTN folds. Villain 1 calls and Villain 2 calls.


Flop:
The flop comes KJ10. Oh my. Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 bets $20 without much hesitation. Hero?
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:37 PM
Hero makes it $80 and straps his seat belt on.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 07:47 PM
I raise to 60, but any reasonable size will allow an easy shove.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 08:02 PM
I make it 60 to go. Call any shove. Villain only has 120 left. Don't want to make the sizing to big to scare him off his tp/combo draw/draw.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 08:10 PM
Thanks for the replies!

For the sake of debate and since everyone has said "raise", is there ANY merit to flatting here? Not because I would slow-play it on that crazy wet board, but to be cautious in case already behind?

SP
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 08:15 PM
Are you going to flat all the way to the river and fold if the board doesn't pair?

Or are you raising and getting it in ott?
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 09:12 PM
Based on stack sizes, raise here, then get it in on the flop (if 3-bet shoved on) or on the turn assuming it isn't the Ah, Qh, or 9h. Good luck at the river, since a loose Asian guy with this board is guaranteed to win about 96.4% of the time against TT regardless of what he has.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-22-2012 , 11:22 PM
I would make a pot-sized raise to $90.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.paul
Thanks for the replies!

For the sake of debate and since everyone has said "raise", is there ANY merit to flatting here? Not because I would slow-play it on that crazy wet board, but to be cautious in case already behind?

SP
NO; not at llsnl. Villains are sticky when they donk these boards in general and there are plenty worse hands and drawing hands that wont fold. If your behind you almost certainly have 2 streets to catchup. Shovel the money in as fast as possible. This is very standard and the stack sizes make you print money everytime in this spot so long as you put in a 3-4x raise
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:01 AM
Where's the tricky spot at? Easy raise and get it in. Sometimes you're losing and then oh well. But there are just way too many 2pr/big draws that you have great equity against to not raise and get it in here.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:04 AM
Op must have gotten coolered on this flop and is questioning his raise/call line
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
Op must have gotten coolered on this flop and is questioning his raise/call line
lol no sorry I was gone from the house for a few hours, haven't had a chance to keep this going. Allow me to continue...
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:33 AM
Live $1/2 NL, full table 10 players. Standard PF raises at this table are usually $8 or $10, sometimes $12. Anything bigger is fairly significant.

Villian 1: SB, stack ~$230. Mid-30's white guy, looks European. Have only played with him maybe once before and a little bit this session. Impression is that he is at least a fairly solid player, able to think a bit.

Villian 2: BB, stack ~150. Asian guy, maybe also mid-30's. I've definitely played with him at least once before and think he is somewhat Loose-Aggro.

Hero: HJ seat, stack $225. Mid-30's white guy. Been at this table for a couple hours. I'm definitely not viewed as Loose or overly aggro. Probably image is somewhat tight.

The Hand:
Folds around to Hero, who finds black 10 10 in the HiJack seat. Hero raises to $10, CO folds, BTN folds. Villain 1 calls and Villain 2 calls.


Flop:
The flop comes KJ10. Oh my. Villain 1 checks, Villain 2 bets $20 without much hesitation. Hero raises to $70. Villain 1 tanks a little, then shoves all-in. Villain 2 goes into the tank briefly, moans to himself and tosses it away.

Hero?
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:38 AM
v1 shoving makes this a fairly legitimate dicussion, calling $150 more after investing $80 makes me hate folding since his range is likely something like AQ, Q9, KJ, AJhh, QJhh, JT, K10, JJ, AXhh.

We are beat by 2-3 hands only (assuming he flats JJ pre) with equity in decent shape given there is 2 streets to hit 10 outs when we are coolered. Still call
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool
v1 shoving makes this a fairly legitimate dicussion, calling $150 more after investing $80 makes me hate folding since his range is likely something like AQ, Q9, KJ, AJhh, QJhh, JT, K10, JJ, AXhh.

We are beat by 2-3 hands only (assuming he flats JJ pre) with equity in decent shape given there is 2 streets to hit 10 outs when we are coolered. Still call
Thanks for this reply, ur posts are always informative!
From even the posts above, it sounds like evryone is in favor of the raise and then get it all in.

However....Hero tanks, and folds.

I thought that, as at least a somewhat thinking player, he would figure that to make that raise on that wet of a board, I had at least a set.

However, I also admit I am learning and have a long way to go. I'm not a consistently winning player yet.

I realize I had a large portion of my chips already in there. I tanked for awhile on it. After the fold, he flipped over KJo for top 2. Asian guy said he had AK.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:44 PM
Holy......

You have bottom set... with redraw outs even if you are beat.

And most of the time they show up with AK, even AA, QQ whatever.

Sorry, but worst fold ever.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.paul
I thought that, as at least a somewhat thinking player, he would figure that to make that raise on that wet of a board, I had at least a set.
Ugh. Against a thinking player on this sopping wet board, you can't fold. He'll jam lots of big-equity hands (pr + SD, pr + FD, SFD) that you're still ahead of.

Plus, he might have as little as TPTK and put you on a combo draw.

PS you posted results way too soon.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.paul
Thanks for this reply, ur posts are always informative!
From even the posts above, it sounds like evryone is in favor of the raise and then get it all in.

However....Hero tanks, and folds.

I thought that, as at least a somewhat thinking player, he would figure that to make that raise on that wet of a board, I had at least a set.

However, I also admit I am learning and have a long way to go. I'm not a consistently winning player yet.

I realize I had a large portion of my chips already in there. I tanked for awhile on it. After the fold, he flipped over KJo for top 2. Asian guy said he had AK.
Do you have pokerstove?

You should probably get it because it is free. http://www.pokerstove.com/

You can see that this is a pretty clear call.

You should not get in the habit of folding sets on the flop.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 05:54 PM
Oy your fold sucked. Sooooo often a guy has KJ, AK, KQ, etc. here. AQ or Q9 or JJ are total coolers. Think of it this way--you only need to be good 1/3 of the time to make this call. You have to be good at least that often against 99.99% of 1/2 players.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceKicker
Ugh. Against a thinking player on this sopping wet board, you can't fold. He'll jam lots of big-equity hands (pr + SD, pr + FD, SFD) that you're still ahead of.

Plus, he might have as little as TPTK and put you on a combo draw.

PS you posted results way too soon.
Its fine to post the results this soon for these types of hands IMO. I don't think there was anybody reasonably saying that this is a fold. Even after the shove this is not a tough spot IMO. Live players are always jamming 2p here. That plus all the big draws and pair+draws put us way ahead of his range.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 07:13 PM
I'm curious what people think of Villain1's line in this hand? Cold-call an LP raise with KJo in the SB, then check-shove on a two-toned, draw-heavy board. I'm trying to think of where I would play it differently (if anywhere) if I were him.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 08:47 PM
When Villain check/raise shoves, it's ugly for you and you're beat somewhat often, but, you're not folding after investing $80 of a $225 stack. Get it in, take your lumps if you're beat.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-23-2012 , 10:49 PM
I am going with the consensus. Hopefully your post and exposure to the responses will improve your play.

Even without the STOVE, remember that you have 7 outs to boat on the turn and 10 on the river. Get it in and look at 2 cards. So many people shove with 2 pair that you cannot fold a set. Also remember how many people will shove the flush draw here.

You will make up getting coolered by the times you cooler others. Don't let potential coolers effect your play.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-24-2012 , 12:02 AM
Easy call on the flop. I think villain might even shove here because he has a pair or two pair, and is afraid of all the flush and straight draws.
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote
02-24-2012 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
I am perfectly happy to get all the money in OTF when I hit a set.
This
1/2NL, 1010 bottom set, tricky spot Quote

      
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