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1/2 - We have full house - They donk river

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07-31-2015 , 01:19 PM

numberonedonk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,181

1/2 - Effective stacks $200 - Hero covers

V - Asian dude in mid-late 30's. Just sat down and is probably his 2nd hand.

Hero - Awesome white guy

Hand -

4 limpers to hero on btn with 46s and we call. V calls in SB, BB checks.

Flop - K64hh (king is not H) - checks to hero who bets $10 - V calls in SB everyone else folds.

Turn - 6 - V checks I bet $15 V calls

River - Ah - V leads $40 with roughly $140 behind.

Hero?

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07-31-2015 , 01:25 PM

Flopp3dIt

adept

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 997

Maybe it's just me...

But I am jamming for pure value.
They will call you off with flushes a lot of the time.

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07-31-2015 , 01:33 PM

fitzthetaxman

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 768

A lot of people will say fold pre. Those people probably have a better hourly than I do.

That said, with the right villains involved I might get involved here too.

As played you should be betting turn bigger for value. You're getting calls from any king and probably any flush draw. I probably bet closer to 25-30 on turn.

As played, hero should shove river for value. Sorry if he had A6.

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07-31-2015 , 01:39 PM

EatMyDitka

banned

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 800

how is this even a ? unless your debating raising to 100 or going allin for 140

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07-31-2015 , 01:42 PM

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,053

Raising pre is much better than limping.

Folding pre is much better than limping.

As played jam - you should get looked up by hearts and 44. A6 should of raised turn and K6 should of donked flop or check raised.

This looks like a flush draw.

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07-31-2015 , 01:45 PM

fitzthetaxman

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 768

I agree with DJ that raising is better than limping usually...but we don't know effective stacks of the limpers. They might be so shallow that raising is actually worse than limping...in which case folding is probably best...but then we would not have a thread.

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07-31-2015 , 04:23 PM

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Pre: table dependent. I'll limp quite often. Raising works if you can get people to fold pre and post. Limping works if they'll
Pay you a lot in spots like this one. Folding works if none of those are true.

Flop: $10 is fine. I'd probably bet the pot.

Turn: too small. Think about his range. Kx, fd, 6x. All of those will pay a premium.
River: it's hard to see him calling all the way with A6. Get it in.

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07-31-2015 , 04:52 PM

Dutchstreetfish

adept

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 832

Turn is a little small. River is shove.

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07-31-2015 , 06:07 PM

esspoker

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,630

never fold, almost always ahead here. great spot

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07-31-2015 , 06:46 PM

#10

wj294

adept

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,121

I'd probably fold pre, you'll flop second best and have to continue too often for my liking.

AP, flop is fine. Turn I'd bet more, pot is $34 if I've calculated it correctly, I bet $25. On river I shove when he donks, there aren't many realistic FH combos, only the pocket pairs, 64 and A6, it looks to me like they hit their flush and are hoping a blocker bet can limit their potential losses if they're beat and I'd hate to lose value because I've only got 5th or so nuts.The pot is also $104 and he has $140 if I'm correct so villain will have decent odds to call and pray you have AK or a blank 4.

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07-31-2015 , 11:51 PM

#11

kookiemonster

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,652

I like it. You could bet more on the turn, but some players will see a 1/2PSB as a sign of weakness, also might convince them to continue with their flush draw which is very important to us.

Clicking back the river is an option but mostly I think shoving for fat value is max EV in the long run. Sucks if he was planning on bet/folding the river, but then again he might have folded for $40 more anyway.

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08-01-2015 , 12:12 AM

#12

kookiemonster

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,652

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

Raising pre is much better than limping.

Folding pre is much better than limping.

lol LAG!

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08-02-2015 , 06:46 AM

#13

numberonedonk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 2,181

So I shoved and got snapped by K6.

As far as pre goes, on this table I think folding is terrible and completely fine with calling to see a flop in position. Raising is probably fine but I elected not to.

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08-02-2015 , 10:07 AM

#14

Submerged

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 444

If you're looking for advice on the hand, I'd say....... Don't get coolered! Once you called pre, you are losing 100 bbs with those hands and that run out. Nothing you can do.

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08-02-2015 , 03:30 PM

#15

Colts_Fan

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by numberonedonk

It's tough, but I'd say that's how it goes. I would have lost it all here, too.

Without knowing the result, I was agreeing with the consensus to bet more on the turn and shove the river.

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08-02-2015 , 03:54 PM

#16

Jamitontheriver

adept

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,137

3rd nut against 2nd nut with 100 BBs is just what it is. GII, when you get coolered just move on to next hand.

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08-02-2015 , 03:55 PM

#17

RAHZero

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,706

I'm fine over-limping a hand like this on the button as long as we play well postflop. I'd probably pot the flop for $15 in this spot. Turn bet is definitely way to small, you can get called by plenty of worse hands in this spot (Kx, FDs, other 6x) and want to get max value here. River is definitely a value shove, he has a ton of flushes in his range and isn't folding them to a jam.

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08-02-2015 , 04:33 PM

#18

pike58jack

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 166

Just want to point out to jamitontheriver 64 is not third nut. It is 5 nut after AA KK A6 and K6. And I have seen weird lines taken with amateurs in low limit games where they make this play so don't say it is impossible for them to have AA. I agree it would be impossible for you or I to have AA in that spot

Anyways cooler rebut and move on. Nothing you can do. And yes bet more on turn to set up river bet as so many other posters have already said

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08-03-2015 , 01:02 PM

#19

dickwiggle

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 261

I'd probably push 90 out there while at the same time saying min-raise in a very self-assured way. V may call floor but he is going to look you up when they say they lesser bet is binding.

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08-03-2015 , 02:27 PM

#20

D.M.O.U.

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 442

lol @ how V played his hand

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08-03-2015 , 03:04 PM

#21

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.M.O.U.

lol @ how V played his hand

+1

V loses a ton of value if you're sitting there with Kx, especially once the flush comes in

everyone else already picked the hand apart, flop whatever, flop good, turn bigger, river jam good.

i think looking at this as a whole, you have the 5th nuts on a run-out that the 1st and 2nd nuts are very unlikely and the river completed a draw in the best possibly way. more times than not you'll see flushes or poorly played 6x here than you will 1 of the 4 hands that beats you. anything other than jamming is losing value in the long run.

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08-03-2015 , 05:28 PM

#22

HiroNakamara

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 493

Quote:

Originally Posted by numberonedonk

kagey's theorem - nobody check/calls oop two streets and donks river without a nutted hand.
since the board is paired, V should never be donking a flush. So that just leaves FHs.
Against an unknown in a live LLNL game, shoving is typically spew... wa/wb.
V is either folding with worse or calling with better.

if we knew V better and his tendencies, we could play better. as played, shoving is a very optimistic play.

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