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1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check 1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check

08-05-2011 , 01:09 PM
1/2 no limit. Usual limp feast for most part.

UTG +1 raises 6X (200+BB) (crazy guy who just raises because he feel likes it...no concept of position, hand value, table image, stack sizes, etc)

loose passive guy calls from MP (~ 100BB) (basically ATC player/ fit or fold post flop, had seen him limp in in MP with 95o, J8o, and all kinds of trash)

Hero A2 calls from BUT (~90+BB) (aggressive but nothing crazy or out of line)

SB and BB call (both failrynew to the table, no read)

($60) 6A9

UTG+1 checks.
MP bets pot ($60) (clearly has a big A, maybe AK)
Hero?

1) Call and reeval. on turn?
2) fold
3)RAI

and why?
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:39 PM
Call. That way you can hopefully see the turn card and make your flush. A raise will only open up the action again and could make you have to play for stacks in order to continue.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarchon385
Call. That way you can hopefully see the turn card and make your flush. A raise will only open up the action again and could make you have to play for stacks in order to continue.
Once I call, the pot is $180, and I have ~$120 behind. What is the plan on a no club/ no 2 turn facing another big bet/shove?
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:51 PM
Im advocating a raise. ($130) and call a shove. Shove any turn.

We have a pair and a NFD, its time to build us a big o pot.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:52 PM
Please dont just call this and hope to bink on the turn. Get the money in now. Even on a blank turn, your still shoving.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarchon385
Call. That way you can hopefully see the turn card and make your flush. A raise will only open up the action again and could make you have to play for stacks in order to continue.
Raise and play for stacks...shabadoo.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:54 PM
I don't see why we would just raise OTF, then shove OTT...?

If we do raise OTF we have to make it 120 ATLEAST leaving us with a 60 shove into a 300 pot...?

I just shove OTF, hes not folding AK
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Walker
I don't see why we would just raise OTF, then shove OTT...?

If we do raise OTF we have to make it 120 ATLEAST leaving us with a 60 shove into a 300 pot...?

I just shove OTF, hes not folding AK
This makes sense given what we have behind.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sac_Pacman
This makes sense given what we have behind.
If he calls any raise, even a min raise, hes never folding for 60 more OTT like 5:1 odds lol
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:17 PM
With eff stacks just ship and maximize whatever fe we have if any.

If we were 100% sure he was never folding AK, isn't this a fold?
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:26 PM
I'm fine with just shoving here. If you raise and get called any amount you are pretty much pot committed and villain shouldn't fold to any bet you make on the turn if the pot is that big already.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:31 PM
It's not smart to narrow any range down to one specific hand. He could have: A2s+, A9o+, 7c8c, 66, 99.
I discounted air unless this guy is absolutely suicidal. Potting vs basically the whole table on this board is TP+ 100% of the time.
Basically, you need to come from behind. The fact that he has already put in ~half of his 100bbs says he's committed mentally. You don't have the pot odds, but combined with the implied odds and the fact that he basically turned his hand face up gives you an advantage. You can, imo:
A- make a loose call.
B- fold.

Edit: I now read your stack size and cF fold non 2 or club turn is stupid. Either shove or fold. I'm leaning towards shoving and rebuying honestly.

Last edited by illionaire; 08-05-2011 at 02:37 PM.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abgtr
If we were 100% sure he was never folding AK, isn't this a fold?
Hence the option 2, fold.

AK is defintley is in his pre flop passive CALLING range. I know he almost never has a set here. He was at my table last week , and slow played his sets twice, once on a very wet board and paying off on the river to a rivered straight.
He is never folding AK, A9 and A6.
Our fold equity comes from A7, A8, A10, AJ and maybe AQ. A very narrow range.

Aginst AK, A9 and A6, we have about 35% equity, and have ~44% against the rest of Ax.

Last edited by CyrusJavid; 08-05-2011 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Correcting equities on flop
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abgtr
If we were 100% sure he was never folding AK, isn't this a fold?
Not with dead money. Pokerstove it = 45/55. Arr-in & hope he has clubs or folds.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrusJavid

Aginst AK, A9 and A6, we have about 35% equity, and have ~44% against the rest of Ax.
Correction to my own post; against AK , we are also ~44%.

Of the three options, I think calling is the worst. 1 out of 4 times , turn is a blank and the chances are very high that we are facing a large bet/shove with pot odds of 2.4 to 1 and an equity of only about 22% .

Arguments can be made for folding primarily based on bankroll considerations, and variance invloved.

I think the best option here is to shove while our fold equity is the highest and if called, we have outs to the nuts.

RESULTS:
I shoved, got called by AKo and missed. Maybe I hit next time.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 11:47 PM
its a little worse than a flip, but with all the money in the pot already its a clear ship on the flop.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-05-2011 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrusJavid
1/2 no limit. Usual limp feast for most part.

UTG +1 raises 6X (200+BB) (crazy guy who just raises because he feel likes it...no concept of position, hand value, table image, stack sizes, etc)

loose passive guy calls from MP (~ 100BB) (basically ATC player/ fit or fold post flop, had seen him limp in in MP with 95o, J8o, and all kinds of trash)

Hero A2 calls from BUT (~90+BB) (aggressive but nothing crazy or out of line)

SB and BB call (both failrynew to the table, no read)

($60) 6A9

UTG+1 checks.
MP bets pot ($60) (clearly has a big A, maybe AK)
Hero?

1) Call and reeval. on turn?
2) fold
3)RAI

and why?
grunch

Get the money in now. If you just call and the flush does come you are probably not getting paid off anyway.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-06-2011 , 04:25 AM
No one says fold pre???
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-06-2011 , 04:45 AM
Fold this pre... especially if not you're not instantly jamming this flop.

This is about as good a flop as you're going to get, jam this in as quick as you can. It doesn't matter if he calls with AK or not... he just needs to call with KcQc once in a blue moon to make it worthwhile. Even a huge draw like 78c you've got drawing to 8 outs.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-06-2011 , 10:14 AM
It doesn't matter how you play this hand, the odds and holding play it for you pretty much. Only positive I can see behind flatting is that he's never folding Ax to a shove, but has to have at least a few bluffs in his range if we flat (although minimal), and sometimes we get a free card OTT.
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote
08-06-2011 , 12:28 PM
terrible call preflop tbh
1/2, TPNK & NFD....Line check Quote

      
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