Well, wish me luck, I think I'm going to go to the same game, same players, but with 5 card PLO hi. I expect it to be a bit of a zoo.

Hand 1:

A large number of 1/2 Villains don't actually think in terms of pot size, but simply in dollar amounts. This can lead to ridiculous overbets (when pots are small) *and* ridiculous underbets when pots get big.

V isn't thinking "let's bet 4x pot here as a bluff with the nut flush blocker." He's thinking zomg broadway + nut flush draw, seems like a $40 hand. If the pot were $40 I guarantee he wouldn't be betting $160 there.

Easy call IMO.

Hand 2:

Either your reads are off or you're playing scared money. JJ is a trivial GII against a maniac. Things really only start to get interesting around AJ or KQ range.

An OMC is a specific type of player. This is not an OMC imo.

Without information I don't think hand 2 is an easy shove at all. I actually don't mind a fold. Hand 1 I do mind a fold, though.

First thought in my head was a straight for OMC, call flop but very weird spot.

Hand #2, well QQ is an instant ship here so JJ is one as well. I’d muck 88/99 and TT is close.

^^^

My bad, I missed that. Against an aggro maniac I can agree it's probably a shove. I still wouldn't be particularly happy about it, but I would likely go for it.

Hand #1 = Easy shove....not a flush versus 99% of the player pool.

Hand #2 = Easy fold. Guy will give you plenty of chances to get him so no need to hope you are flipping here vs AK.

What's OMC?

If that guy's truly an aggro maniac, I don't see the urgency to gii for Hand 2 as there are many other spots to get him, this is not the only chance and sometime they do wake up with real hands. JJ is just putting your >2 BIs stack at unnecessary risk when there'll be much better spots.

You guys are sick nits making up random reasons not to put in chips. Again if you're folding here you're not good enough for finding a better spot enough to justify it. Maybe just wait for AA and hope same thing happens. Also if it's so easy to find better spots and you'll nail this maniac eventually then who cares if you give him chips?

At least you will not have to deal with overbets.

Hmm, I wonder which side is the prevailing opinion? Dude, it's not a "random" reason, and if you're results and took a peek at it, he got lucky H folded but he did have a good pp, could've easily been QQ so not as if he was really crazy. I care if he stacks me on a stupid flip when I can play him postflop another hand and take him there. It's just gambling and I personally think it's silly to risk here and I've been on juicy tables where the obvious sucker gives many many many opportunities to stack him as they keep making mistakes. Certainty not the best spot here and will have better ones. Also lol if you think this is the best spot again especially when deep, you can gamble, I won't.

You're not giving any actual reasons to fold (like you're not attempting to range V at all) you just keep repeating that you don't like to gamble, essentially. Well guess what, I'm fine with it. I don't care even slightly about flipping for 2 BIs, if that's what happens.

The problem with the "wait for a better spot" is that you are roughly 1 in 8 to be the guy at the table who gets the hand that stacks him. Like if we take this allin, wtp? Either we stack him, in which case job done, or else he doubles up, in which case we can try to get the money back. If your answer is "but what if he gives his money to someone else" then exactly, that's why we should take this spot.

Edit: The problem with folding is that there's almost no way he's tighter than 99+ AQ+, against which we're even money, and any looser than that is gravy. Like I said, I don't think this is ever AA or KK, and if you take those out of his range then JJ is easily +EV.

No, I did put V on hands, overs in this case. I care about flipping when less risk can be found later on. If V is an aggro maniac as those I've encountered, there will be spots and almost every one at the table will take a bite outta him like a cow wandering into a piranha-infested rvr. Call me a nit or risk-adverse but I'm not gambling over 2 buyins unless my read is spot-on.

I just plugged in a range that's not totally maniacal

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

1,140,394,464 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JJ	58.55%	659,518,308	16,347,876
88+, JxTx+, QxTx+, KxTx+, AT, AJ, AQ, AK	41.45%	464,528,280	16,347,876

If we're 58.55% here, shipping 437 to win 900 is $90 +EV.

Find your "better spot" that's worth more than 45 BB. You might be waiting a while. That's basically EV on an entire session for a solid winner.

Suppose we're wrong about him being a total maniac

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

585,607,968 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
JJ	46.88%	268,395,396	12,224,796
AQ, AK, TT+	53.12%	304,987,776	12,224,796

Even if we're this wrong, our EV to rip it in is only -$15.