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1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? 1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line?

12-07-2018 , 03:12 PM
Simple/straightforward hand with a situation that seems to come up fairly often. I want to see what everybody thinks is the "optimal/standard" line.

Very soft table with lots of Hero pre raises and takedowns (i.e. raise to $10 pre and all fold).

D Hero ($250): Young AM, tight
SB V1 ($70): Old WF, weak/passive, no history
UTG V2 ($210): Young WM, tight/solid, competent player
UTG2 V3 ($100): Young AM, weak/passive, no history
UTG3 V4 ($180): Young AM, unknown

Preflop:
V2 calls
V3 calls
V4 calls
Hero raises to $16 with KK
V1 calls, V2 folds, V3 calls, V4 calls

Flop ($70): 543
V1 checks
V3 checks
V4 checks
Hero bets $35
V1 folds
V3 folds
V4 calls

Turn ($140): 543Q
V4 checks
Hero checks

River: 543QK
V4 checks

Hero action?

Notes:
1. Pre/Flop: I feel the play is okay, so no questions there.
2. Turn - is there any reason to bet again, now that we are heads-up?
3. River - obvious bet, but how much? What can V4 call with?
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:19 PM
I would bet the turn
draws will call
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:20 PM
Would go hair bigger on flop. 40-45.

Turn: Bet sometimes check sometimes.

River: weird spot. Guess we are targeting 2 pair only. Because don't see crying call from any pair he had on flop. So I bet pot $140. Expect mostly folds.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:20 PM
Of course bet turn. He either has a draw or a pair. Get value from it. If he folds you prob weren't making any money anyway.

River, bet big. If he doesn't have at least 2p, he's prob not calling for any size, so get more value the times he does. I'd shove, given effective stacks and that it might be seen as bluffy.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:37 PM
Raise bigger pre. Like 20+

Flop I bet a bit more but no big deal.

Turn is a brick so I bet to charge draws/weak pairs. Bet 70 to get stacks in easy otr. The reasons to bet are the same as they always are. You have the best hand often and v has a weaker pair or a draw. Just because we're HU is no reason to stop betting. Also trying to pot control when this shallow is a mistake. You flopped a strong over pair with SPR 2. GII by the turn imo.

AP river bet 85 and hope he bluff catches. Or just jam if you think it will look bluffy.

If you had bet the turn the river is an easy jam. Size up pre and post and the turn is an easy jam.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:44 PM
Pre is fine, although I'd probably just make it $20.

As played, go slightly higher on flop. Definitely bet turn for reasons stated (charge draws, get value from one pair). Bet river whatever you think he'll call. I might just keep it small -- like $50 - $75 as if you don't like the K, but a shove is fine. Vs. unknown, I like smaller hoping he looks you up.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 03:46 PM
A lot of stuff is still calling the turn. Any six. A3 A4 A5. AQ. Maybe other aces. A lot of pairs. Even many recs now know that just because you bet a new high card on the turn doesn't mean you have it. Also, sometimes he will pick up a flush draw.

You also don't want to give free cards to those draws, nor to hands that are giving up unless they river a set or something.

AP, the river is kind of hard. There is a lot for him to be scared of. Garrick's approach makes sense. It looks like a bluffy spot for you.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 04:08 PM
Since you asked what the "standard" line is, it's probably betting more on the flop to set up an easy turn shove.

I think if you have money behind for the river, you have not played a "standard line".
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 05:11 PM
2/3 pot flop, 2/3 pot turn, river i probably screw up in game but i think it’s probably correct to bet smaller, maybe 40% pot unless you have a read that you’re gonna get heroed light.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 06:51 PM
bet flop bigger to set up turn shove, it's not a 3 street game here given shallow effective stacks. Any Ax is calling you otf so might as well charge them, 66, 6x, overpairs that dont believe you "lol AK"
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-07-2018 , 11:41 PM
I feel preflop is good and flop is fine since the flop is dynamic(could go bigger since we have it now). If it comes a 6 or so you have position over V and can see what V does. Nothing fazes you actually besides an A or 6 or 2

FLOP : 35$

TURN : 130$

Simple. Draws gonna call. QX gonna call. Maybe even 77p, 99p-JJp gonna call.

Last edited by smokey93; 12-07-2018 at 11:49 PM.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-11-2018 , 01:34 PM
Agree with majority of comments that Turn is a bet.

As played:
Hero checks on Turn
Hero bets $20 on River
V4 calls and says he has AK (doesn't show).
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-11-2018 , 03:28 PM
River bet is terribly small.

V has $130 behind OTT with $140 in pot so I just ship there.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-11-2018 , 03:30 PM
I think pre is fine tbh. Standard line is to bet flop, I'd probably say 50ish. This builds the pot for an easy turn shove if you get a caller. Everyone is so short here that you don't really want to be folding. V4 is almost certainly not calling your shove with their hand, but you can get values from a spiked Q and other pocket pairs, maybe even A5 or 56 if they level themselves into calling.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-11-2018 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
River bet is terribly small.

V has $130 behind OTT with $140 in pot so I just ship there.
I was convinced at the time that he didn't have much to call with.

I was surprised he had AK (or so he claims).
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-11-2018 , 04:46 PM
Pre and flop are both good. Turn you've only got $149 behind with $140 in the pot, so this is a clear jam. There's no reason at all to be checking back the turn here.

As played, river is also a jam. Don't overthink spots like this. Big river bets are almost invariably higher EV than small ones.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-12-2018 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiasian
I was convinced at the time that he didn't have much to call with.

I was surprised he had AK (or so he claims).
The low stakes player pool tends to call too often so in a vacuum it’s better to bet more chips for value rather than less.

Also $20 is crazy small. Like if you want to go for thin value against a guy who won’t raise without a great hand, make it $50. But this is not a thin value hand, bet to get paid, which means ship.

What would you bet if you wanted to bluff? You’d ship or at least bet a lot more than $20, right? So do you want to lose 100% of the pot every time your bluffs get called or win 14% of the pot every time your big hands get called?
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-12-2018 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
The low stakes player pool tends to call too often so in a vacuum it’s better to bet more chips for value rather than less.

Also $20 is crazy small. Like if you want to go for thin value against a guy who won’t raise without a great hand, make it $50. But this is not a thin value hand, bet to get paid, which means ship.

What would you bet if you wanted to bluff? You’d ship or at least bet a lot more than $20, right? So do you want to lose 100% of the pot every time your bluffs get called or win 14% of the pot every time your big hands get called?
I would generally bluff less and just bet more if I wanted him to fold to a bluff.

I don't feel the need to balance bet sizes vs. unknowns at this level.

There are some regs I play with where I will play more balanced, but I have no history with V4.

But I did ask for what the "standard line" would be, so I agree with your comment.
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote
12-12-2018 , 05:31 PM
not sure if we should just shove the turn or bet half of villains stack
1/2 Simple Hand - What is "standard" line? Quote

      
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