Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? 1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time?

05-12-2019 , 09:26 AM
There is a new player with deep pockets that I've started to encounter more. I have ~30 hours with this villain, but he has an extremely blatant strategy of leading for leading for PSB or more on a flush draw, checking brick turns, then betting the pot or more regardless of the river card. I've seen villain do this six times now.

Yesterday, villain lead into me HU on an AKQhh board for 1.5x on flop, checked 7x turn, then fired for pot on 3x river and TT was good. That was the first time I've made a call down on a board like that in my life, but did it based on what I had seen the previous five times. Now it appears very clear that this is an every time thing for him. He mucked, but did say to the guy next to him "can't make a ****ing flush," and I mean what else could he have had?

This has me thinking, should we just try to get it in every single flop that villain leads like this? TT is garbage on an AKQ board and I have no reason to call even a tiny c bet from anyone else, but vs this villain should we have just tried to get it in? Should we be taking it a step further and trying to get it in with A high/good K highs when villain does this?

Thank you in advance for the discussion.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 09:33 AM
I probably would have still folded TT on that flop... If your read's right then it's right but wooof that's playing with fire (also maybe he's playing QJo like a draw and you own yourself )

(And if you do have an iron read, if you're thinking long term, maybe best not to make it too obvious)

Yeah, if you know for sure V has a flush draw and nothing else it makes total sense to get it in with anything better on the flop. I just wouldn't assume V never ever changes his strategy.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel
I probably would have still folded TT on that flop... If your read's right then it's right but wooof that's playing with fire (also maybe he's playing QJo like a draw and you own yourself )

(And if you do have an iron read, if you're thinking long term, maybe best not to make it too obvious)

Yeah, if you know for sure V has a flush draw and nothing else it makes total sense to get it in with anything better on the flop. I just wouldn't assume V never ever changes his strategy.
Right...I almost mucked when he mucked but I think it's a little rude to not show, so I did, but I don't want him to know how light I'll call him.

I'm mildly worried about him changing his strategy, but it is 1/2, he's not a thinking player, and he's either away from table getting drinks or calling clients about 40% of the time, so poker clearly is not a big focus and if you're only at the table 36 minutes out of an hour, how likely are you to actually be changing strategy up?

The QJo like a draw is a major concern...I was thinking similarly, hoping he didn't have JhXh, which is another reason why I posted this...I haven't seen him do it with pair + FD, but there's no reason to believe he's not doing it with combo draws.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 10:56 AM
Jesus don't show if you don't have to. Also no shot the TT hand was well played regardless of results.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkthestink
Jesus don't show if you don't have to. Also no shot the TT hand was well played regardless of results.
Idk I feel like it's good etiquette to show
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 03:18 PM
Others think it is -EV to show when not otherwise required.

Still others think showing nuts when not required helps us get a stronger image so we can bluff more.

And others think showing weak hands when not required helps us get more action.

And others think showing weak hands when not required slows down Villains who would otherwise bluff us.

Few others consider "etiquette" when deciding whether or not to show when not required.

Personal preference.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 04:32 PM
One reason to show that I don't see mentioned is that it lightens the atmosphere. Winning players don't need to be so cutthroat all the time. It can be +EV and more fun depending on your personality to foster a lighter, fun atmosphere instead of a cutthroat competitive one.

As for your question. If you can narrow his range to exactly draws then the optimal play probably depends on how much board coverage his range has. For example K72 monotone is going to give you much less incentive to raise a hand like AK no FD because his range either has 100% or 0% equity against you by the river, whereas on a board like JT9tt AA isn't going to know if he's bluffing or not when the turn is a Q.

EV of raising flop if his range is only draws is the pot. EV of calling if he bluffs river 100% and you never incorrectly call or fold is 2*[pot]*[hero equity], so calling with perfect information is always better.

Of course, if you actually have so much information about his ranges. You can float ATC profitably and wait for him to pot river so you can raise and watch him fold. However it's rare for villain's to be so predictable like this.

Last edited by browni3141; 05-12-2019 at 04:54 PM.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote
05-12-2019 , 05:33 PM
i didnt say or mean to never show ever. that said this was almost the worst spot i can think of to show your hand.
1/2 Should we just be trying go gii otf vs opponent that leads his flush draws huge every time? Quote

      
m