This hand was pretty ridiculous and I couldn't even wait until the morning to post it. Hero and villain have both been at the table for only about an hour and have both built up stacks from $200 to $1000, hero through some good aggressive play and building pots; Villain through some binking nuts with weird hands and getting paid.

Villain is a mid-20's Spanish/Brazilian guy with headphones in one ear, diamond stud earrings. Villain is sitting directly to hero's right (jackpot)! My reads after an hour are the following:

Villain is loose-passive pre. He routinely limps, even in EP, overlimps straddles in EP and has defended his limps/straddle limps to Hero's PF raises. His raise size is weird/small, like $6-7, and he does weird things like raise to $7 from SB after a few limpers and later showed down 43hh.

Hand reads on V:

H1: UTG straddled, UTG+1 called, V called UTG+2, Hero raised to $25 in MP with AJss, only V called. Pot $60, Flop 6 8 9 r. V checks, hero checks. Turn Qr, V checks, Hero bets $35, V raises to $85, hero folds and V shows two pair 98o

H2: V calls a raise from BB, bets $15 on flop into $30, PFR raises to $45, V calls. Turn completes flush, V checks, PFR bets $60, V re-raises AI for $200 effective, PFR folds and V shows A8ss for nut flush

H3: V is in SB and calls a raise from MP. 5 to the flop, $75 in pot, checks to PFR who bets $60 on a AQT board. V c/r AI to $200, PFR calls showing broadway KJ (no clubs). V shows 86 and binks a club on the river, wins pot with flush.

So V is a total wildcard and his favorite move in the whole world is the check raise. He's C/R three times and had two pair once, nut flush once, and an 8 high flush draw the third time. What the hell do we make of this?

OTTH,

Hero is aggressive as **** as I've been getting great PF cards for the last 15 minutes. Pretty much raising every other hand. Folds around to short stack woman in CO.

CO raises to $7 ($150 effective)
V calls $7 in SB ($1000 effective)
Hero 3! to $35 in BB with AA($1000 effective)

I wasn't really thinking of SPR's in this situation because a) I have so little experience playing this deep and b) there's no easy way to build a small SPR with 500 BB effective stacks unless V has a monster like KK/QQ here. Although, if I just flatted the $7 the SPR would be ~48 on the flop but that is a ridiculous proposition and is incredibly scared/weak in my opinion when we are potentially trying to play for stacks.

Pot: $100

Flop: K 7 5

V checks
Hero bets $75
CO folds
V calls $75

Standard? I can hear wj94 somewhere saying "pot the flop."

Pot: $250

Turn: 8

V checks
Hero tanks for a good 30-45 seconds before announcing "$150"
V goes into the tank himself for a good 1-2 minutes

V is sighing and seems noticeably discontent. Has a stack in his hand bouncing them up and down on the table like a nervous tick, though I am trying not to watch him. I don't necessarily think he is Hollywooding here as in previous hands he C/R very quickly, like less than 10-20 seconds from the original bet. Here he is doing some mental gymnastics in his head and I have no idea what he is thinking. Hero is preparing for V to fold and ready to scoop a nice pot, until out of nowhere...

V announces "All-In" for $890 total, $740 on top of Hero's bet

What the eff? Where did this come from?

*As an aside, should hero be betting or checking this turn? I know I only have one pair, but as deep as we are and the potential Kx and flush draws in V's range (although I have the A so maybe not as many), can we afford to let a card peel here? Is the fact that we are so deep mean we have to go into "pot control/protection" mode and get to a cheap showdown? Or is this a standard, albeit deep, value extraction spot? All I could think in my head was "2+2 is gonna crucify me for not bet/folding in this spot if I don't bet here ... but I really don't want to be forced to bet/fold this deep."

Should I have just checked it back and called any river bet up to $300 or so (slightly more than pot)?

Anyway - back to the topic at hand. What the hell do we do here? Is calling just straight up gambling, or is the fact that there is >$550 in dead money in the pot make this a +$225 EV call if we believe there is a 50/50 chance V has us crushed or we have V crushed? This guy is clearly capable of spazzing, but do we want to find out if this is the hand with just TPTK for 500 BB's? Still ... this almost seems like a dream flop to stack off on with AA > AK.

Extremely interested in reading thoughts/line check/feedback when I wake up in the AM.

So far from your reads, both of Villain's turn check-raises have been for value with what he thought was the best hand (2 pair once and the nuts once). Only his flop check-raise was a semi-bluff.

I think Villain flopped a set and he tanked because he was scared he was going to run into KK. Large amounts of money will do that to people.

Has Villain been in a pot this big before?

Agree. Or he turned a combo draw.

Its difficult because were so deep, unless you embrace the variance.

V hits alot on this board, mostly 2pairs and sets. He does show up with combo draws and pairs with straight draws and he would probably play it the same.

Personally I don't think he is afraid of top set, he hasn't show any care for what the other players may have, only his own hand strength.

Wow tough spot. It comes down to whether or not you like to ride the variance train.

>villian builds stack by binking nuts and getting paid


Possible he has 64?

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I agree with crusifying you for not betting the turn. I think this is a pretty standard bet/fold spot. But in the same respect if we think V is capable of V betting TPGK on the river or bluffing with his busted draws it's not out of the question to check back the turn and call on bricky rivers. We're able to get away from the hand on 4 card straight cards and maybe hearts, although we do hold a blocker to the likely FDs we've seen him GII with a 8 high flush draw so he clearly dosent care about flush strength.

As played with reads (good effort on providing reads by the way) I think we can bet/fold here pretty easily. V hasn't shown that he's willing to bluff his missed draws so we have no reason to believe that now. I'd like to think AK is in his 4betting range, I doubt he has an understanding of SPR and he'll be 4betting AK regardless so that only leaves KQ in his value range that we beat. So on the river our hand turns into a total bluff catcher with basically no value.

Playing this deep is tough. We just can't build a pot pre that's big enough for us to get it in with just an overpair which does give some credibility to checking back the turn, but as previously mentioned we're then just bluff catching and V doesn't seem like the kind of person to bluff often enough for that to be +EV.

Pre - line ok

Flop - line ok

Turn - bet/fold

I'm not calling a 400bb check raise on the turn with one pair without a better read that V is a total spew monkey who never looked at his cards.

Besides that, the tank-shove has in my experience never been anything but the nuts. V has the straight here about always. At best we are drawing to two outs. This is a snap fold (but tank hollywood for a minute if you must) face down.

I think I likely check back the turn for this reason. At 1-2, there is no sense bloating pots even with AA unimproved. We get to see the river and bluff catch reasonable safe cards on reasonable bets.

Disgusting hand. This really comes down to your reads of V. From your OP and having only an hour with V I'd fold.

From your description of the table I'd make it ~50 pre flop.

Very trivial fold

Villain has not been in a pot this big before. Hero and villain have been running over the table, knocking out short stacks left and right. Most people are buying in for $100 - $200 and we are shooting them down like fish in a barrel. Biggest pot Villain was in was the previously mentioned flop semi-bluff shove with 8-high flush draw (~$575 pot).

If V is a thinking player/aware (I'm not convinced), he would see that hero is playing 80% of hands that V limps in. Hero is limping behind any hand capable of hitting a decent hand (T9o, 86o, Kxs, etc.) vs. this V and raising my standard raising range. We have had skirmishes back and forth where he usually calls a preflop raise from me and folds on the flop or on the turn as I have been double barreling most boards due to actually having a hand.

The rest of the table is basically just watching us go at it as I am targeting V hard. A couple of middle-aged people have gotten fed up and left the table (lol), likely because hero is some "aggressive kid" (28 but I look younger).

Just because we are so deep I actually prefer checking back this turn. I really doubt we are going to get three streets from KQ/KJ and I don't see how AK is in his range flatting the original 7. If he actually has a king we're going to get value on the river anyway.

I can see why people would think bet/fold turn would be better. I guess it could be....but it feels so sick.

So gross, but based on reads, it's a fold.

Good job picking up those reads on his turn play with value hands. Now I think you should be using that info in your decision on this hand.

Based off what you've said, this looks like a fold.

I like your sizing on all streets here. Based off your read of him generally being passive, then we should be looking for 3 streets of value. Checking back the turn gives him an opportunity to draw for free. We want to charge him to draw out, and call along with his KQ/KJ/KT hands.

i'm not sure in game i would check back this turn, but knowing V loves the c/r, i might be more inclined, especially since we have the A

i think AP it's a fold. with the hands you've told us, he has all 2P combos, all the sets, probably even both straights. offset by what FDs he could do this with - there arent a bunch that arent combo draws or made hands that have a redraw - he could easily have 86, and know that even if you have KK, you have to fade virtually half the deck.

it would be pretty sick though if he is smart enough to leverage his stack with a hand like Kx since he blocks combos of KK, you're probably not 3 betting 88, 77, 55 and you're so deep that AK and AA basically puke here.

I kinda chuckled at this. I'm not saying you didn't play well, but $800 an hour at 1/2 takes some extra fortunate circumstances.

This sounds like reverse tilt a little bit. Sounds like you were kinda high on your own momentum. Otherwise, why would you EVER consider calling off 400BB's with one pair at 1/2.

He sucks, he's directly to your right, and you're both super deep. Plenty of +EV right there. Next hand

I check back this turn as well. Especially this deep, we can get blown off our hand very easily here (which is exactly what happened). In position, go for two streets of value and call any river bet or b/f if checked to.

Not every hand requires b/f, b/f, b/f holding an overpair, especially in position.

Bet-folding this turn against someone who check-raises all the time is pretty ugly. If V is decent, he's aware that the only hand you're likely to have that can bet-call with is KK.

This deep, its a pretty easy fold. We are either marginally ahead (or 50/50) or we are crushed. Unless he's a total maniac he's not shoving a naked king. We block the NFD so villain has a ton more value hands in his range. Two pair, sets, straights all get there by the turn. If by some chance he's spazzing with a smaller FD, so be it. In fact, he has significant equity if he's got a pair/combo draw kind of hand. So again, we need to fold because there are so few situations where we are way ahead to make a call +EV.

What would be interesting is if the turn was the 8h.

What is the impact of the $550 in dead money on EV?

I don't think the Villain's raise is really absurd. A pot-sized bet is 700 which would only leave him 190 behind which is sort of a joke.

I think this is a bet-fold against most of the known universe. If it's not an easy bet/fold against this person then I think checking the turn is viable. Of course if this person is a Spew Monkey you have an easy bet/call on the turn.

Regarding your pre-flop thoughts: I think it's an easy 3-bet but you should be planning to stack-off unimproved pretty much never.

Against most people the turn is an easy bet and a trivial fold against the raise that only comes when the Villain is nutted.

Stop....just stop.

Watch one million hours of live 1/2 no limit. Pay close attention to every $2000+ pot you see. How many one-pair hands get shown down?

what is the utility of having a 370bb stack (as opposed to a 150bb stack) for future play against this particular V with this particular stack size?

Just want to add even though I said it's a trivial fold. It's a really awesome brave line by villain. He can definitely have bluffs but we still have to fold that's why his play is great.

The utility of a maintaining a 370 BB stack is enormous, which factored into my decision... but, at the same time, we have no way of knowing how long V will stick around for. He could get up the very next hand for all we know. I routinely see people rack up and leave once they cross the $800 - $1000 threshold at 1/2.