I'll keep this short and to the point...I thought it is worth posting since the two hands in question happened about 30 minutes apart...

Only time previously that I have correctly folded KK preflop was at 2/5 vs AJ and AA in a 5 bet shove pot with the 5th bet being $2200...and of course the case K is in the door.....I vowed to never fold KK preflop ever again!


1st hand 1/2 - effective stacks are $300

Middle aged man opens UTG to $17. He has raised once in about 4 hours. Folds to me in CO. BTN and BB are both Old Men Coffees, while SB is a very competent 2/5 player.

I flat the $17 for two main reasons.

First being I'm 99.9% sure UTG only has QQ+ here and since I have KK that likely narrows it to QQ or AA. If I 3bet he folds the QQ.....second being there's a good chance SB squeezes which will let us know 100% what UTG has. If he folds to the SB squeeze I can then shove on the SB who may feel he has to call if he is squeezing with something decent.

However...OMC on the BTN insta 3 bets to $75. He has not raised at all in the 6 hours that the table has been open. SB and BB both fold.

UTG thinks for a sec, sighs and mucks. Turns out he indeed had QQ.

I take a minute or two, say "Bad fold!" and toss my kings face up in the muck. Other than the solid SB the whole table is like WTF??!!:what:

Old Man Coffee tells me when he cashes out later that he indeed had AA and that everytime he gets them everyone folds!


2nd hand - full orbit later $300 effective

Different Old Man Coffee who has just arrived at the table limps UTG.

UTG + 1 over limps. He is in his early thirties and has been at the table for about an hour. He has been very passive preflop but quite aggressive with his stack post flop - usually open shoving $200+ with any piece or draw. Pretty sure he is mainly a low stakes tourney player from his table talk.

Folds to me on the button(!) and I make it $25.

The blinds fold and OMC makes it $80 to go, gives me a smile and a thumbs up and says "Come on buddy! Get it in there!"

30s dude then slowly and deliberately says "All in" and slowly slides his stack in.

OMC now says "Aw yeah let's go. Get it in there!"

I look at these two from across the table and think "Really? Twice in an hour?"

I apologize to the table and tell them this may take a minute.

OMC again gives me the thumbs up and smiles.

I thought for what felt like ten minutes and I really felt like these two had AA/AK with OMC probably having AA and 30 something tourney guy having AK or maybe AQ considering he overlimped then 4 bet shoved. If AK was out there that would leave me playing for stacks essentially drawing to a 1 outer.

Eventually I flashed my KK to the solid 2/5 player and mucked face down.

OMC snaps and turns over..........TT
30s guy turns over.......................KK

KK holds.

!@#$ FML I am so bad! LOL!

Everyone asked what I folded....they didnt believe me when I said I had kings as well.

OMC turned out to be one crazy SOB. Bluffing all the time, calling down with 3rd pair, just having an all around blast putting chips in the middle. Not sure how many times he rebought because I lost count. Unfortunately I didn't get too many of his donations.

If I had followed my own advice and not folded pre I would have had a net loss of about $150 between these two hands instead of $37......

Please.....flame away!





Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using 2+2 Forums

Is there a question here?

Seriously! Hand 1 OMC lied to you. You can't fold KK preflop vs Eastcoast players. They play AK to aggressively.

Hand 2 You can't fold. What you think they both have AA?

Stop folding KK preflop on the eastcoast. Should never be done 150bbs or less.

^ what he said, if villain shows AA blame it on the deck not your decision. Nothing to think about.

Never fold KK pre unless one of three conditions occurs. You either have a sick read AFTER a big sample size and seeing hands go to showdown, etc....you are 200+bb deep and get 4bet or 5bet by a passive player or you are up against an extremely nitty person. All of these require at least a decent sample size btw.

first one is fine because you had a read

second one, you just judged a guy to be a super-nit because he was old.

Sometimes you have to lose with Aces vs. Kings dude.

I'm never folding in hand 1, I don't care if OMC is 120 years old.

Cool story.

what's with the bias against east coast old guys?

Usually "East Coast" OMCs either limp or just call w/AK, AQ etc since they are drawing hands. 50% of them only raise KK+. OMC from hand 2 was definitely an anomaly!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using 2+2 Forums

Meh first fold is borderline since you are against a guy who only 3bets KK+. I would still just 3bet/f KK myself rather than cc.

Second hand is a call, people are usually quiet and nonchalant when they have monsters not loud and begging for a call. VS unknowns I am stacking off with KK everytime if you run into AA chalk it up to a cooler and you still have 20% equity.

This. Also, OP, was this Sunday morning? Was Mr. Miyagi at your table? Haiiii-YAH!

Saturday afternoon.....after the 2/5 hand a few months back I THOUGHT I had decided to never fold KK preflop anymore.....especially at 1/2....Maybe I am thinking waaay waaay too much for 1/2.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using 2+2 Forums

Both seem fine. The second one is difficult because he's talking which is usually huge strength.