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1/2 live: Counterfeited on river OOP 1/2 live: Counterfeited on river OOP

05-04-2011 , 09:49 PM
Background
Daily underground game filled with mostly donks. I'm up to about $600 from my $200 buy in by being really aggro and running like God. Villain is a good TAG who knows I am aggressive and does not like giving up in heads up raised pots. He has about $500.

I raise to $10 in middle position with 86, two people in later position call including villain (villain's range here is pretty wide in position). Previous limpers fold.

Flop: 1083

I C-bet $20, middle guy folds, villain raises to $50. I call because: a. my image is so aggro and he might think the c-bet looks weak b. the board is draw heavy, so i may be good. Also something I couldn't put my finger on led me to think he didn't have a monster.

Turn is 6, giving me two pair. I lead out $75, he thinks a little then calls. At this point I put him on a spade draw or half decent 10.

River: 10

Hero?
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05-04-2011 , 10:54 PM
Bet $50 and fold to a raise. Typical blocking bet.
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05-04-2011 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke4fun
Bet $50 and fold to a raise. Typical blocking bet.
this play is super weak, imo. alot of things wrong with this hand. number one i hate playing pots with these type of preflop hands. stuff like this happens. i would have folded on the flop to his raise, like you said the board is drawy..so why are we getting involved with mid pair, again spewy. as played, c/f river.
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05-04-2011 , 11:23 PM
Betting is bad as a block and certainly for value/as a bluff. It's a c/decide for me, but I certainly don't think c/fold is bad.
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05-04-2011 , 11:49 PM
You're beat and he's not folding. c/f.
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05-05-2011 , 12:11 AM
Why would you check fold if you put the guy on flush draw? I might check to induce a bluff, but check/fold is horrible in this spot.

I don't think villain is calling a donk bet of $75 with a made 10, but rather on draws.

I take back my original comment, I rather check to induce a bluff and call.
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05-05-2011 , 12:23 AM
Given your image I think villain either has three 10s or a better 2 pair with a slight chance of a boat or a straight. Against an aggro opponent I think most villains are likely to call with draws and raise with made hands. I think it's much more likely you are against a made hand that would bet for value than a missed draw that would bluff the river. You said villain doesn't like to give up in raised pots, so your FE is low. If you are going to bet, it has to be pretty big and since you are crushing the other donks, I don't think it's worth the risk.
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05-05-2011 , 12:32 AM
Folding flop isn't that bad since we're OOP and villain doesn't like to give up pots (IE: he's going to be agro on later streets whether he has a better made hand, completed draw, missed draw, and air.) As played I c/decide river as well.
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05-05-2011 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundar
Folding flop isn't that bad since we're OOP and villain doesn't like to give up pots (IE: he's going to be agro on later streets whether he has a better made hand, completed draw, missed draw, and air.) As played I c/c river with smile since there's almost nothing he can have that beats us here.
how long have you been playing poker?
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05-05-2011 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoronaAndLime
how long have you been playing poker?
edited, but explain to me the number of value hands vs bluff hands. Actually spend 5 seconds figuring it out. I actually think it's a tough decision but not because of that.
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05-05-2011 , 03:16 AM
OP, I personally would have folded to the flop raise, because I wouldn't know what to do OTT.

So I'm curious as to what your plan was OTT (for my own edification). What do you do if an over comes? Or a spade? Or even a brick like a deuce?

What range of hands do you feel villain has?
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05-05-2011 , 03:47 AM
c/f spot. If villain is decent, he will realise that your flop call and turn lead is pretty strong and the river 10 is a pretty bad card to bluff.
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05-05-2011 , 06:13 AM
hate the turn play. if you're going to lead, lead bigger, else you should check, as he should be betting here, where you can check/decide (stacks are good for a check/shove). once you get to the river, you should once again check/decide. I, personally think a bet is silly, unless you want to bet to induce a raise, in which case I would bet something really inducing like 25. if you don't like the concept of bet/deciding, you should consider taking actions to avoid marginal situations, such as raising suited one gappers preflop.
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05-05-2011 , 09:53 AM
Just fold flop. You're flipping vs all draws, crushed by top pair or better, and are OOP. As played don't block bet $50 on the river, if he has half a brain he's gonna raise that ******ed 1/6 psb no matter what he has. Most likely c/f if he bets big because your line looks so much like a missed draw or trips+.
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05-05-2011 , 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slik
hate the turn play. if you're going to lead, lead bigger, else you should check, as he should be betting here, where you can check/decide (stacks are good for a check/shove). once you get to the river, you should once again check/decide. I, personally think a bet is silly, unless you want to bet to induce a raise, in which case I would bet something really inducing like 25. if you don't like the concept of bet/deciding, you should consider taking actions to avoid marginal situations, such as raising suited one gappers preflop.
Stacks are pretty bad for a c/r AI OTT. Pot is $135 approx. We check, villian bets $80-$100. We raise AI for $300+ more? It's definitely an overbet that we only get called by with better hands.

HOWEVER, what are our other options??! We're realistically ahead of everything but 97, but we can't c/r for less than AI because it commits us to the pot regardless of the river. Not a Good spot to be in. I like leading turn, but $75 is too small. $100 or even $110 is much better. It taxes draws and sets up the river nicely. Once the 10 hits, it becomes c/decide but I'd lean toward calling if he doesn't make the bet too valuey.
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05-05-2011 , 11:34 AM
Come to think about it, our perceived range for leading-flop/call, c/call range contains a lot of 10x, I doubt villain is value-betting an over-pair or trying to bluff us off 10x OTR. I think it's a c/fold.
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05-05-2011 , 11:45 AM
Our perceived range has to be stronger than 10x to lead on the turn...

Hence the reason why I believe villain is on flush draw or maybe set, putting hero on a turned straight.

I just don't see villain calling with a naked 10 on turn when the risk of hero firing $100+ bet on river is great.
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05-05-2011 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke4fun
Hence the reason why I believe villain is on flush draw or maybe set, putting hero on a turned straight. I just don't see villain calling with a naked 10 on turn when the risk of hero firing $100+ bet on river is great.
with only 1 straight possible but a flush draw on board, no competent player would ever flat a turn bet with a set or strong 2-pair. As played, chances of villain having 33 or 88 here are so unlikely.
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05-05-2011 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunkamunk
with only 1 straight possible but a flush draw on board, no competent player would ever flat a turn bet with a set or strong 2-pair. As played, chances of villain having 33 or 88 here are so unlikely.
We're talking about a 1/2 table, so we can't really eliminate 33/88 from just calling the turn.

I really can't see a naked 10x calling the pre-flop raiser who calls a c-bet/raise then donks the turn. Maybe villain has 7/9, the other explanation why he would flat the turn.
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05-05-2011 , 12:30 PM
OP here. I hate the $50 blocking bet on the river obv. Hard to argue with folding flop, but like I said something told me he just wasn't that strong. I also agree that I bet too small on the turn because it makes flush draws harder to call AND i still think he would call with a decent naked 10. Checking the turn seems out of the question: if he has a flush draw, he's likely checking back and if he has a 10 he might even check back for pot control.
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05-05-2011 , 12:33 PM
results?
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05-05-2011 , 12:34 PM
I don't get why people think blocking bet is bad in 1/2.

Most villains simply don't know how to deal with it. They would call it with hands that they had intention to value bet bigger, and rest of the time, they would just fold the hands.

Try it, see if it actually induces bluff raise ever...
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05-05-2011 , 12:36 PM
The actual value of $75 is a pretty big bet in 1/2, regardless its size relative to the pot.

I don't think it makes any difference betting $75 or $100 against this villain.
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05-05-2011 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke4fun
I don't get why people think blocking bet is bad in 1/2.

Most villains simply don't know how to deal with it. They would call it with hands that they had intention to value bet bigger, and rest of the time, they would just fold the hands.

Try it, see if it actually induces bluff raise ever...
i think he's good enough to recognize a blocking bet most of the time
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05-05-2011 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke4fun
The actual value of $75 is a pretty big bet in 1/2, regardless its size relative to the pot.

I don't think it makes any difference betting $75 or $100 against this villain.
If we want to get the $ in OTT or on a brick river, it makes a huge difference, as I previously explained.
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