Hero: Seen as nit, slightly passive Tag.

V1 UTG aggro unknown: Mid 20s asian kid table changed to our table for 2 known fish with $700 has opened or attacked limpers 4 of first 6 hands. Seems positionally aware and knew a known regular who plays 2/5+. The greeting suggests a reg rather than fish but unknown.

V2 UTG1 Wizard. Plays hands passively but disguises hands well sometimes. 25/15. Value bet him to death.

V3 UTG2 Reg fish. He's a thinking player but loose pre and post. The regulars hunt this guy because he often plays deep. Oddly enough I have seen him hunt other deep stack fish and regularly win. The way he plays suggests he plays for a living but I think he's a fish. Calls with 2nd/3rd pair and weird draws and almost always gets paid by bad regs.

UTG ($700)opens $12 (normal raise size for him)
UTG1 ($400) calls
UTG2 ($300( calls.
Hero is in MP ($270) with KdQh.

Hero looks behind and everyone disinterested in their hand. There has been very little 3betting on this table. I often get the button with a call (~70%)

3bet? Call? Fold?

Fold.

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3bet to $45. You have blockers, Position, Image, a deep stack and this line looks super strong. I think you take down the $39 in the middle here very often if your reads are accurate as they should only continue w/ JJ+ and AK (which you can barrel off post). Folding is Neutral EV. Calling is probably slightly -EV depending on UTGs opening range, other villains calling ranges and your post-flop skill advantage.

fold pre

If calling is -EV because of a tight UTG range, then 3betting should be a problem for the same reasons. What part of that right UTG range do we expect to fold?

AQ, AJ, AT, other KQ, pairs below JJ (maybe even JJ). We're seen as a nit and should get a lot of credit, plus UTG has been very aggro over a tiny sample. If you're going to fold instead of 3bet bluff here are we just never 3bet bluffing?

OP, 3bet to $70

I fold as you are not deep enough Herero squeeze and play post flop aggressively

+1, far from a mandatory spot to 3bet, and KQo is also a little too strong to 3bet bluff imo.

it´s probably a fold pre, but calling ip with this hand ip is not a big mistake imo. I guess it could be played profitably, but not by most players.

The argument is that squeezing here is good in a vacuum, making whatever happens post flop irrelevant.

I agree on squeezing but only if you have enough chips left to make a solid flop bet if needed.

You can't stop your thought process preflop...what if they call you? With your small stack they may call you.

Then it's a bad argument. Any 3! means we have to shovel it in OTF and this is llsnl...no one cares if he's been playing nitty, they'll call anyway. Might as well just go all in pre if your goal is to stop thinking.

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Are you guys trolling? Obviously we don't just stop thinking (wtf??). I'm saying the squeeze is good, regardless of what happens post flop. The squeeze, by itself, is good.

We all understand that squeezing would be good based on hero's image but in this case, considering hero's stack size a squeeze may not be a good idea

Problem is you can't use the NIT image argument for a squeeze and not consider stack sizes. You don't get to pick and choose which actualities you entertain for the sake of your argument.

Hero has 135bb. What are you talking about?

So if Hero 3! To $70 and gets villan1,2 to call.
Pot is 232, hero has 200 left

What do we do in the flop to use our NIT image and get a better hand to fold?

Why are you still talking about post flop? I don't know how to make this any clearer. Imagine that there is no flop, that the hand is over preflop, no matter what. We are going to get folds often enough with a squeeze that it will make the act of squeezing profitable. We don't want anyone to call.

Have the people, that want to fold pre, ever played live 1/2?

Then I repeat, why not just ship it pre? If your only plan is to play this pre then max your FE right? You can't tell me you believe 70$ gets you all folds 100% of the time and thus no plan is necessary for the supposed spr 1 flop as it will never exist.

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Because $70 is best for what we are trying to accomplish. Why ship it and only get called by hands that crush us? We can bet $70, fold out a lot of hands that are ahead of us, and fold to a 4bet by hands that crush us?

This is a gross misrepresentation of everything I have said. You are a troll.

70 seems excessive. 50 should make some dead money and results in a playable pot with slightly weaker ranges.

Might be a bit loose with KQo, though.

KQo is the perfect hand to turn into a 3bet bluff, it's the top of our folding range and has blockers to the villains premium hands. Also $270 (135bb) is plenty deep to make light 3bets and squeezes.

An Aggro villain on a heater w/ a deep stack is probably opening 22+, AT+,QJ+,KQ+ and some suited connectors, something like a top 16-18%. I think after we 3bet he only continues w/ his top 2-4% of hands, folding roughly 80% of the time.

The last point tipping the scales to a 3bet is the villain descriptions. They seem capable of making the folds. Worst case scenario - they play back at you, you lose your nit image and you get payed off more in the future.

I think $45-65 is the best price on your bluff. If villains fold 75%+, you can insta-fold post-flop every time and your profiting in the long run (obviously we wouldn't be doing that though).

The initial raiser has only played six hands with the hero so I doubt he's folding out cards in this range at this point. Even if everyone folds behind us, which we can't guarantee on in middle position despite our table image, doesn't the best case scenario here seem to be isolating against the UTG villain & getting position on him if we can't get the fold? It seems like a fairly risky move to three bet with not much behind if we can't guarantee the fold from the villain.

A few people are mentioning the blockers we would have on villains hand here. Could someone go through the details of that? I feel like there would be a number of hands in our opponents range beyond just Ax combinations and overcards that would be blocking our hand here? Not sure but would love to go through the different combinations.

Good 3bet spot here. I'm not following the arguments to not go for a squeeze. If you're called, then fine, just play poker and don't freak out. If you're not able to follow through, then fold pre. 3betting may not work all the time, but definitely enough to make a squeeze a profitable move in this situation.


OP - on a humorous note, what kind of player has the traits of a nitty passive tag? Do you play passively aggressive, or aggressively passive, or aggressively nitty? :-)