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1/2 KJss get 3 betted 1/2 KJss get 3 betted

03-14-2016 , 01:42 AM
Came across this hand

1/2 table

Villain-reg, came down from 2/5, saw him whoop out 3k cash, agressive thinking player.

Hero(700)-KJ raises to 7 from UTG+1,
Villain(300)- Left of Hero 3 bets to 21

Hero folds here, thinking don't want to get into 3 bet pot with smart player and i didn't see him 3 bet anyone on table yet, so he prob has me dominated.

Is this a good fold in the long run?
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 02:05 AM
Easy fold.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 02:26 AM
Assuming 9 or 10 handed, am I the only nit who folds this pre?

Given he's got a bunch of people to act, I doubt he's messing around, and you're going to be way behind his range OOP to what sounds like a good LAG, so easy fold to the 3b.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
Assuming 9 or 10 handed, am I the only nit who folds this pre?

Given he's got a bunch of people to act, I doubt he's messing around, and you're going to be way behind his range OOP to what sounds like a good LAG, so easy fold to the 3b.
If I'm at a 1/2 table where I think folding this pre is the best play I'm changing tables. My LLSNL games usually have plenty of people who will call a raise with WAY worse and play so bad postflop that I would open this 100%. Probably to $10-12 too.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 06:35 AM
unless you two have long-long history (which does not seem like the case here)
I will say fold here
Don't feel bad about folding KJss, you are most likely behind and out of position
I say good fold by hero
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
Assuming 9 or 10 handed, am I the only nit who folds this pre?
The suited broadways have significantly higher SC ratings than their offsuit counterparts (1.5x; they're unique in that sense). You're only in trouble when you get 3-bet, so I think it's mostly table dependent. If the 3-betting is solid, I think it's fine to open/fold.

It sounds as if you're tossing these in the majority of times you see them. I'm just guessing, but I would suppose there's a lot of tables where that isn't optimal.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
Assuming 9 or 10 handed, am I the only nit who folds this pre?

Given he's got a bunch of people to act, I doubt he's messing around, and you're going to be way behind his range OOP to what sounds like a good LAG, so easy fold to the 3b.
Yes, you are.

I think this 3-bet can be called if you want to play a pot. Because your raise size is small, the 3-bet is also small.

I wouldn't play this pot OOP. I would almost definitely call it IP.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 08:30 AM
Also just say you got 3-bet, not 3-betted.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 09:00 AM
Also don't open to 7 in live poker
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3
Is this a good fold in the long run?
Yes. Auto-fold to a 3bet. You're likely dominated and risk a RIO situation. It's always harder to get paid when you hit big.

I would fold pre at aggressive tables, open at tight-passive tables, and limp at loose-passive tables.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 10:13 AM
This is a snap-fold. Without any metagame/3-bet dynamic with this V, I'd snap fold better hands like AJs and KQs too. AQs is probably a fold too, though maybe not a snap-fold.

Generally, I would say that a big leak that a lot of "good" regs I play with have is calling 3-bets OOP with Broadway cards and then playing fit or fold on the flop. 2/3 of the time they miss the flop and fold, and the remaining 1/3 of the time they're often dominated. I generally hate poker rules, but now say that I never call 3-bets OOP unless (i) I have set-mining odds (which usually requires either deep stacks or very small 3-bets), (ii) I have AK (which I may 4-bet or flat) or (iii) I have a reason to trap with AA or KK (unlikely OOP). If I'm 3-bet OOP I'm generally folding most hands unless there's some reason to think the 3-better is doing it light, in which case I might 4-bet. While this is certainly exploitable, most people don't exploit it and the very bottom of their 3-bet range is something like AQ, and some people 3-bet much tighter than that.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 12:51 PM
What if i had jacks in this spot? Would i want to call down if its 10 high board, and fold if its A K or Q high board?
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-14-2016 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3
What if i had jacks in this spot? Would i want to call down if its 10 high board, and fold if its A K or Q high board?
Really hard to answer these questions without a read on V. How long have you been playing with him and how many times (if at all) has he 3-bet? Is he the type to go broke with an overpair? Will he triple barrel air (most Vs will not)?

Let's assume you have no reads other than those given, and just sat down. Think you can always call this bet with JJ in order to set mine. He's got almost $280 back and the raise is $14, so you're getting 20:1 implied odds. If you miss your jack, you need to proceed carefully on all boards, even if you have an overpair. I probably check/fold all A- or K- high boards. I'd call a flop bet on a Q-high board or a board on which I had an overpair. If he barreled turn I'd think very hard about folding, as most Vs don't double barrel with air. Almost never calling three bets with JJ as an overpair to the board in a 3-bet pot v. an unknown. Very unlikely someone triple barrels AK or AQ there, so I'm really hoping they have TT, which sometimes is a flat call anyway pre.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 12:41 AM
Change seats and get on his left. You don't want this guy to have position on you the rest of the night. If you can't change seats, change tables.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
Change seats and get on his left. You don't want this guy to have position on you the rest of the night. If you can't change seats, change tables.
What? Why? You don't wanna be on the left of someone who can 3 bet?
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Villain(300)- Left of Hero 3 bets to 21
V has position on us. We don't want that.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3
What if i had jacks in this spot? Would i want to call down if its 10 high board, and fold if its A K or Q high board?
If you had JJ would you have made the same opening raise?
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
V has position on us. We don't want that.
My bad I meant to ask why we wouldn't want V on the left of us, which I'm still wondering why you mentioned. All V did was 3 bet us, that could just mean he had a monster and 3 bet. Not gonna change seats/tables based on this information alone.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi3
Came across this hand

1/2 table

Villain-reg, came down from 2/5, saw him whoop out 3k cash, agressive thinking player.

Hero(700)-KJ raises to 7 from UTG+1,
Villain(300)- Left of Hero 3 bets to 21

Hero folds here, thinking don't want to get into 3 bet pot with smart player and i didn't see him 3 bet anyone on table yet, so he prob has me dominated.

Is this a good fold in the long run?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmatikk
My bad I meant to ask why we wouldn't want V on the left of us, which I'm still wondering why you mentioned. All V did was 3 bet us, that could just mean he had a monster and 3 bet. Not gonna change seats/tables based on this information alone.
That information is why I would seat change.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote
03-15-2016 , 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k
If you had JJ would you have made the same opening raise?
No, I would make it 15 especially from that UTG+1 , but not sure if Villain knows that about me yet, he just sat down like maybe 20 mins ago.

He raised loose preflop, didn't 3 bet anyone except me.

I left shortly after that, it was 7 hours in and I was up $683, good enough for a part time job income.
1/2 KJss get 3 betted Quote

      
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