V1 and V2 are not exactly nits, but definitely nut-peddlers, and have built stacks of $550 and $850 respectively by making it 7-8bb preflop and playing mw pots aggro, all showdown hands were nut/second-nut hands where other players missed their draws or called down with 2pair against very strong betting by both Villains (ie pot-sized bets and 3-3.5x raises against other players flop/turn leads).

Hero is at $200, TAG image playing very few pots all IP, no showdown hands as of yet, one squeeze of JJ to $45 from small blind in 7-way pot preflop for $5/apiece and having it fold around, Hero showed.

V1 and V2 limp UTG and UTG+1, rest of field limps to Hero OTB with 54, SB completes, BB checks option.

Flop ($18) Q36

V1 leads $20, V2 flats, Hero raise to $50, V1 3bets to $150, V2 flats...

At this point I think the range is incredibly narrow, and it's a set over set situation. Given the straightforward betting of both Villains I think even AA/KK can be discounted from V1's range as he's raised both in EP (not going for limp-rr). Two-pair combos are out as neither player limps Q6/Q3/63. Even heart draws are out as neither player limps AK and doesn't play KJs in EP, and with the Q out the only sc with some paint is JT which again is not limped EP by either Villain (and neither bets/3bets with even the NFD, and given V2's flat of V1's lead and flat of the raise draws are out for V2). V1's line is identical to one in a prior orbit against a drawy-type player, bet-3bet with middle set on a possible FD board.

Given the reads and ranges assigned, does anyone shove here getting 8 clean outs to either str8 with implied odds (but basically real given the raise to $150 and flat) of 3:1?

Board: Qh 3c 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.676% 30.68% 00.00% 2493 0.00
{ 5h4d }
Hand 1: 04.540% 04.54% 00.00% 369 0.00
{ 33 }
Hand 2: 64.784% 64.78% 00.00% 5265 0.00
{ 66 }

Flat the original open, what does raising so small here accomplish?

I also don't agree that there cannot be more hear draws here - villains would limp Axs here and be playing it the same, yes/no?

I'm going to be the nit. Fold pre. I think people go too far with playing their button and this is just a junk hand that will make 2nd best/not monster equity even when it flops well. 109o or k3s for sure but not this cheese.

Flop raise is terribad against described villain. Given you say he can't have KJ of hearts (which I'd be interested to know why you are so sure of) what hand is he bet folding on this flop? AQ only?

As played I'd still fold because I don't rule out hearts or overpairs with as much certainly but it is quite close by now.

This makes no sense to me. Given ranges you've assigned, we have zero FE, and we want to bloat up a pot in which we have 30% equity? Why? For every called dollar we add to the pot, we lose 3 cents in EV.

are we 100% sure we can pin both V's on 66 & 33? why?

your pre flop call is questionable, but your raise of the flop is indefensible given reads. GTFO of this hand before you just hand money over like that. even if you do have some equity (reads have to be perfect), you'll still have to fade a board-pairing river 20% or so.

lol @ pinpointing 2 villains 100% to specific hands at 1/2. If correct it's a pure maths question, no need for conjecture.

edit: aswell as the OESD you also (without doubt) have 9 outs for the BDFD

[QUOTE=steady mobbin;25839740]are we 100% sure we can pin both V's on 66 & 33? why?

your pre flop call is questionable, but your raise of the flop is indefensible given reads.QUOTE]

V2 flats twice - what else does a nit flat with other than 33 or 66 with one player to act behind? It seemed pretty obvious he was trying to get me into the hand as well. V1 led this same betting pattern with sets twice previously OTF. I know it's ridiculous to pinpoint, but they were basically playing their hands face-up.

Agree with the consensus about the flop raise being terrible.

I think this range is super tight for the stakes your playing. If they only bet nut hands why raise? Also why $30? I think your worse than a 3-1 dog here so I'd fold.

I would call the $20 w/ 8outs since they only bet the nuts and not give them a chance to blow me off my hand, why reopen the betting if your read is set over set?

It seems to me that the only reason to do this is because you want to get it in. If thats the reason you raised then you got what you were looking for, go ahead and gamble.

I wouldn't play the hand that way though.