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1/2 Help with AK 1/2 Help with AK

12-10-2014 , 08:33 PM
This is a hand from my last session where I was sorta confused what to do with AK in this spot.

It's hero's very first hand, literally just sat down at the table with $200.
Hero's friend called him over and said it's a pretty fishy table, and I've never seen any of them before.

Hero looks early 20's, wearing a hoodie, and mostly people view me as some online LAGtard whos super aggro

Villain is maybe late 20's, early 30's, kinda scruffish facial hair, and headphones with his iphone. He's sitting with ~$400


Hero $200 - UTG
Villain Covers - SB

Hero picks up AK UTG and makes it $10, someone from MP calls, and V from the SB calls.

Flop $32
A Q 6 rainbow with 1

V looks at Hero like he knows I'm going to do something, and checks. Hero bets $15, MP folds, V announces raise, then looks at me, then makes it $40.
Hero calls.

I just got this vibe that V didn't want to be taken lightly at the table, and I got a feeling he was almost out to get me, or wanted to get me.

Turn $112
A Q 6 - J Complete Rainbow

V checks, Hero bets $45, V waits like 5 seconds then ships.
Hero wished he would've checked

My reasoning for betting the turn, is because that board smacks our range, and AQ/AJ/AK we are repping here, so I think he would fold a hand like A6 to our heat.

My question is, is this a fold OTF? Can we really just fold every time were raised OTF with only 1 pair? I realize I should've checked back turn, but I think it was my ego getting in the way there. Wanting to win my first hand, and show I wont be bullied.

Next, once he shoves, are we commited to calling? We have $105 left, the pot is ~$260. I figure we have 7 outs at least, maybe 9 if were nice and include an Ace.
1/2 Help with AK Quote
12-10-2014 , 08:36 PM
This is prob Aq...Ck turn due to reads.. As playd prob folding to an unknown
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12-10-2014 , 08:42 PM
Definitely calling the turn since we have at least 4 outs and Villain might have AT/AK. Also could have A9/A8/A7/A5/A4/A3/A2.

I really don't see the point of betting $45 on the turn after calling a $25 raise on the flop.

As the hand played out it reeks of AJ. Players tend to slow down each time their hand improves - hence the C/R on each street.

With 7 outs against AJ and 44 cards left in the deck we are a 37 to 7 dog against AJ (5.3 to 1) and getting 307 to 105 on a call (2.9 to 1). If we knew he had exactly AJ+ we'd have to fold. I call just because I expect enough hands I beat to make the call profitable. When it's borderline in a big pot I edge towards calling for a few reasons:
- I don't want my opponents to think they can easily bluff me out of big pots
- I want to see what my opponent had and think that a marginal -EV call at least gives me information.
1/2 Help with AK Quote
12-10-2014 , 09:05 PM
I don't know how you continued with a bet on the turn. Also, you're betting 40% of the pot on the turn and that looks super weak. I think I'd re-pop the flop to 100, and shove the turn. If we opt to flat, we bet the turn on any diamond and call any shove. Non diamond boards, we can check back if checked to. If bet into, we can likely shove as well. It's a tough spot but I think it's a call if V shoves.

Also, betting 45 to get A6 to fold is an awful idea. I think it's just a bad strategy in all aspects of it. We shouldn't be trying to get dominated hands to fold under some 'heat'. Quite the opposite.
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12-10-2014 , 09:14 PM
there is something about a check raise (especially from a random scruffy looking dude at 1/2) that has strength written all over it.

I don't see them doing it with top pair really. And he only c/r'd to 2.6x. I think at min it's A6s but more likely AQ. I don't think it's 66 since he checked the turn.

After calling the flop I would be pot controlling the turn especially since we picked up a little equity. I don't think he's going anywhere if we bet anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Walker
My question is, is this a fold OTF? Can we really just fold every time were raised OTF with only 1 pair?
in a vacuum with no reads, this is not a raise it's a check raise so the short answer is most likely but villains play a huge part in this decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Walker
I realize I should've checked back turn, but I think it was my ego getting in the way there. Wanting to win my first hand, and show I wont be bullied.
pug walker, when you start to get your ego involved things just don't really work out too well. That is why some people will call a big river raise and say "I know I'm beat but I call" just because there's a 5% chance that the guy could be bluffing. You need to trade in your ego for logic but this might take some practice
1/2 Help with AK Quote
12-11-2014 , 12:50 AM
As to the mechanics of the hand:

Preflop is standard (maybe open a little bigger in some games but w/e). Flop, I'd size my cbet a little bigger: lots of worse Ax to get value from and I'd like to reserve the option to get stacks in if my hand improves. Calling the raise IP seems alright as people raise worse sometimes to "see where I'm at" or have air and then shut down. Plus, you've got 2 backdoor draws. But certainly we should be planning to fold often to any more significant aggression.

Turn bet is not good. After the flop c/r and turn check we should be weighting villain's range towards better hands and air, along with the occasional silly one pair hand. Unless you have a really good read that he mostly c/shoves air on the turn, betting sucks.

AP: we have to call 105 into 307. We're getting a little less than 4:1, so we need slightly more than 25% equity against villain's range to call. Worst-case scenario, villain is never bluffing and his range is aces up and 66:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
924 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A Q 6 J
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
AdKd20.78% 1920
AQ,AJ,A6,6679.22% 7320

I think you can expect to see the occasional spaz with JT or weird QJ, etc. that will bump our equity at least 5%, so you can profitably call.

As to your thought processes in the hand:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Walker
... It's hero's very first hand, literally just sat down at the table with $200.
Hero's friend called him over and said it's a pretty fishy table, and I've never seen any of them before.

...

Hero looks early 20's, wearing a hoodie, and mostly people view me as some online LAGtard whos super aggro

...

I just got this vibe that V didn't want to be taken lightly at the table, and I got a feeling he was almost out to get me, or wanted to get me.

...

My question is, is this a fold OTF? Can we really just fold every time were raised OTF with only 1 pair? I realize I should've checked back turn, but I think it was my ego getting in the way there. Wanting to win my first hand, and show I wont be bullied.
Boldness added... you're projecting a lot of things onto your opponents that have no basis in reality. Why would they view you as a super lagtard your very first hand at the table? Why would a player you've never seen before be out to get you?

At least you've acknowledged that you have some issues with your ego getting in the way of a rational thought process. We all have egos, some larger than others, and it can be hard to ignore showing a bluff or making a bad call for ego reasons sometimes.

Quote:
My reasoning for betting the turn, is because that board smacks our range, and AQ/AJ/AK we are repping here, so I think he would fold a hand like A6 to our heat.
Trying to get someone to fold 2 pair here readless is not a good plan. "Ace King! I knew it!"
1/2 Help with AK Quote
12-11-2014 , 01:21 AM
Trying to get an unknown player in LLSNL to lay down 2pr for anything less than 200bbs is not a profitable move. After you raise pre and bet this flop, he puts you on AK (probably did this right after you raised pre) and yet he still wants to c/r c/jam you? This is 2pr or a set almost 100% of the time. I know you still have outs, but its time to fold.
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12-11-2014 , 02:04 AM
his line is very weird for AQ/AJ (x/r, x/r).. double sandbag!
in my experience double sandbags are monsters and if i got x/r and still called, ill probably check it down unless i have a nutty hand for x/r are far stronger compared to big bets.

I dunno, his hand to me looks for like a set (66 or QQ, maybe JJ or AA).
1/2 Help with AK Quote
12-12-2014 , 06:58 AM
Thanks for the responses guys, very helpful and informative.

I ended up sigh calling on the turn, and he had K10 for the nuts lulz

He said he thought I had like jacks or queens and was just c-betting...
lol
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