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<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. <img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing.

01-24-2012 , 08:44 AM
Hero is 21 y.o. white LAG, regular at this place. Had a rough session, have rebought twice, just got unstuck. [Stack $1200ish] Got stuck with some coolers, playing good, value betting thin, got unstuck, biggest stack at the table, not really getting out of hand maniac bcs of table dynamics. Only me and one other player is raising a lot, lots of limped pots, but there is a lot of calling stations, and about any bet bellow $15 likely gets multtiple callers.

Villain is 20-22 y.o. straightforward weak regular, I've played with him a lot. Limps a lot, loves MW pots, plays suited broadway+any, offsuit connectors, but also plays scared money (BI $100, doesn't rebuy) so doesn't call big raises pre without good hands. Opens strictly AQo+, TT+, 3-bets/commits AK, KK+. He is not very positionally aware, but pays attention to board structure. We've discussed a lot of (his) strategy at the tables.

Hand:
Villain is UTG+1 [$280]
Hero is UTG+2 [$1200]

UTG straddles $4.
V limps $4.
Hero is dealt KQ. Raises $20.
Folds to V, he instacalls.

Flop:
A96

[Pot: $47]
Villain leads $15.
No way he has a set there, a) I'm aggresive and would have had c-bet a dry A-high board a lot (and he knows it), b) board is extra-dry, c) bet sizing. I basicly range him for two hands here - AJ, AT. Unlikely he would have called with Ace-rag suited (he usually mucks this hands HU and plays MW), and he opens AQ-AK.
Hero raises $55.
V contemplates for like a minute, tries to give me a staredown, when calls.

Turn:
A962

[Pot:$157]
V checks. [$200 behind]
Hero bets $110.
V showes.
Hero mucks.
Villain shows AT.

All comments welcome.

Last edited by elcebro; 01-24-2012 at 09:08 AM.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
Turn:
A962

[Pot:$157]
V checks. [$200 behind]
Hero raises $110.
V showes.
Hero mucks.
Villain shows AT.

All comments welcome.
i like how you raise people that check, you must be good
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 08:58 AM
Based on your reads, sounds like you mostly just got unlucky that he picked up a flush draw. Although, trying to push a 1-2 player off an ace on a dry board is rarely a good idea.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 12:05 PM
I don't think this player is ever folding here even on the flop.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 12:48 PM
I like your hand reading skills and believe your ranging of him here is likely very accurate because this is such a common player type.

What we can't know from the forum is whether you just got unlucky that a club rolled off or villain is actually adjusting a little bit to your LAGGY (spewy) play. I think it is a useful lesson or at least reminder that

1. (Most) Players do adjust, although often slowly and badly.
2. Hand reading, knowing your opponents range do not entitle you to the pot. Sometimes we just use this info to establish checking/folding is the most +EV option.

BTW Welcome to the forum OP, you seem like a good poster and your English is superb.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
I like your hand reading skills and believe your ranging of him here is likely very accurate because this is such a common player type.

What we can't know from the forum is whether you just got unlucky that a club rolled off or villain is actually adjusting a little bit to your LAGGY (spewy) play. I think it is a useful lesson or at least reminder that

1. (Most) Players do adjust, although often slowly and badly.
2. Hand reading, knowing your opponents range do not entitle you to the pot. Sometimes we just use this info to establish checking/folding is the most +EV option.

BTW Welcome to the forum OP, you seem like a good poster and your English is superb.
What I noticed is that while we have an idea of his range and commitment threshold pre, OP seems to lack details on how married this villain gets to TP/okay kicker. Knowing he has AT/AJ is not as useful if we aren't certain how he values AJ/A-10 on that flop. Combined with the villain *possibly* making adjustments based on the OP's perceived play, this is a tough spot to try and blow someone off of a hand.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
trying to push a 1-2 player off an ace on a dry board is rarely a good idea.
Couldn't have said it better myself
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 01:49 PM
Agreed the turned draw helped villain greatly.

Raising this dry flop in position you are representing AK exactly? Even a weak villain is going to be suspicious and call getting almost 3:1.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 02:20 PM
I will agree with the others here, what are you trying to represent? No sense in bluffing a station
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno876
No sense in bluffing a station
That is the point - he is not a station, he is playing scared money, he is up a lot in this session, and he is not Ross Geller to marry every time (he hits TP). And fwiw he doesn't adjust, for what I've seen in ~50 hours playing with him. He is definetely capable of laying down TPGK when he'll have to play for his whole stack, espeicialy when he doesn't beat anything but a pure bluff.

I'm repping AQ+, AA, 66, 99. (Sixies are definetly in my raising range in a straddled pot). And I would have played this hands most of the time the same/similiar way (fast).

I'm a bit concerned with my bet sizing, probably bigger/smaller bets would be better?

Probably smaller flop raise -->> possibility to tripple barrel?
Or a bigger flop raise -->> get him out of comfort zone otf and probably get him off the hand early/give up if he continues?

@quesuerte thanks a lot
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
he is not Ross Geller
Not to derail but did you really just reference a Friends character complete with Wikipedia link?
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:11 PM
yep
I don't know if friends are still popular in other parts of the world
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by myshadow75
trying to push a 1-2 player off an ace on a dry board is rarely a good idea.
This for me. I'm just thankful he didn't check and let me cbet, in which case he just made an error and cost himself some money.

Although, to be honest, I will raise flops with air in these situations if I do feel the bet is a "where am I?" bet and I feel villain can fold. I probably don't attempt this on A high boards cuz I just feel villain's are less likely to fold Ax hands plus vs AT/AJ hands it just seems there are very few better hands to have. I'd more raise something like T73 boards where I feel villain is seeing if their T is good and it seems like I can have so many better hands (although I think the actual number of better hands in each case is fairly close. However, once my flop bluff raise is called, I'm usually done with the hand; at this point there's simply far too good a chance villain has decided to stick with it (and I'm FOS) or they've actually flopped a way better hand than we thought.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleH68
Agreed the turned draw helped villain greatly.

Raising this dry flop in position you are representing AK exactly? Even a weak villain is going to be suspicious and call getting almost 3:1.
haha this hand is so similar to the other hand you had posted. this is the reason why i think raising AQ for value on the flop is the best play there.

as for this hand i think its fine but stacks r too short to continue on the turn.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
yep
I don't know if friends are still popular in other parts of the world
LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oMGErAHZsI
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaraza
Not to derail but did you really just reference a Friends character complete with Wikipedia link?
^^Was along the lines of my thinking, LOL.

Anyways, others have noted why I feel that this play in the long run doesn't work. Your opponent has to have a bad case of MUBS in order to not proceed with this hand. You're viewed as LAG, he weak bets a dry ace high board, calls your raise. You can't narrow down his range to only AJ or AT, because other hands that are made on the flop are calling and slowplaying against you considering Vs image. Still can't believe he commits on the flop and folds the turn when he hits some solid equity. I feel that you got very lucky in this case.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote
01-24-2012 , 05:44 PM
I think it was a good play and just happened to not work out because villain turned a draw. I don't think villain was adjusting and trying to trap at all, he just seen top pair weakish kicker and was trying to see where he was at with a small donk bet. He turned a draw, stuff happens, check/shoved with top pair and nut flush draw, stuff happens. The question is would he fold that hand if he didn't turn a draw? If your read is he would then good play. If not then probably spewy.
<img /2 Failed bluff. Know Vs hand, ain't got nothing. Quote

      
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