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1/2 Dealing With Shorties 1/2 Dealing With Shorties

12-28-2014 , 06:06 PM
1/2 NL table, Arab or middle eastern guy just came from a broken table with his buddy. One has maybe $60, while Villain has ~$30-35? Half of which are yellows and whites.

Anyways, Villain limpers from utg+2, few other limpers, and hero gets AJ OTB and raises to $12
Villain calls, all others fold.

Flop ~$30

1063

V shoves for ~$20-25 don't remember exactly.

My question is... is this a call? We have 2 overs and backdoor hearts...
Can we justify a sigh call here?
Also, is there any advice for dealing with these annoying shortstackers besides getting a table change?

I'd say his range is anything from 10x, 6x, to flush draws and even straight draws
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-28-2014 , 06:23 PM
Fold flop, unless his range is almost entirely draws your not getting the odds you need. You should thank the short stacker for letting you off cheap. Heads up you would be likely to c-bet this and then your committed to calling for his remaining stack.

As for playing the short stackers, the guys who limp/call wide and then get all in with any part of board are easy. Wait till you hit TPGK+ and ride some variance, occasionally c-bet air when heads up if your hand has potential. The tricky ones are the ones that like to limp/shove because they force you to tighten up your initial raising range based on their limp/bet range and stack sizes.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-28-2014 , 06:26 PM
The reality is that a good short stacker has a definite advantage over a table that is playing deeper stacked. As a good 100BB player, you're playing "wrong" against the one short stacker.

The good news is that almost every short stacker in LLSNL is bad. They don't know how to exploit their position. They'll either play a 100BB strategy or open their game up too much. They'll bleed their money out. However it is going come slowly in lay downs they make when they miss their set or miss with their overs.

As for the hand, just fold. If he's going to be the too open type, he'll be shoving frequently and you can pick him off at your leisure.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-28-2014 , 06:37 PM
You just need around 30% equity to call. Against a pair that's nearly enough. But if he also has some draws in his range folding would be a mistake.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-28-2014 , 08:04 PM
It sounds like there's 3-5 limpers in there preflop -- you can probably make it $15-20 or so preflop, which makes a headache for him, because now he has to call off more than half his stack instead of just a third. The problem with him calling off a third of his stack is it creates a very natural stop-and-go spot for him (at 1 PSB exactly), while if you put in half his stack with a hand that's likely ahead, you could probably call on this board with nut backdoor diamonds and two overs if you're getting 3:1 or 4:1 (if you'd made it 17, the pot would be about 40-45, he'd have about 15 left).

As is I think you need to fold, but I think you can do more with varying your preflop raise size to defeat this sort of shortstacking, especially if it's fairly prevalent. I don't even think it should damage your game much against other fullstackers, although you should probably start limping your lower pocket pairs and other hands that don't have naturally showdown value, instead of raising to take it down with a c-bet.

Overall though, it's like others have said -- they're on average not going to be very good at shortstacking, so just play your normal solid game and eventually they'll lose.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-28-2014 , 08:10 PM
Actually doesnt seem like a bad call

Im certain if you put in Tx, some 6x, some 3x, sets, flush draws, some random gutters and 45, then you will come up with enough equity to make this a profitable call

Probably not profitable by much, but nonetheless, profitable
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:45 PM
Call. If you lose just keep putting your money in with them until you stack them :-)

Are yellows 50 cent pieces? Lol
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:46 PM
Villain will still be short stacked after we fold.

Why chase such thin (if any) value?

Get it all next time.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
Villain will still be short stacked after we fold.

Why chase such thin (if any) value?

Get it all next time.

If a play is +EV we should always take it regardless of how thin it is (unless it is going to tilt us). An argument can be made for taking -EV lines at times. Just the fact that villain will be short stacked if we fold but either gone or deeper stacked if we call (rebuy or double up) may make this a good spot to call even if slightly -EV.
1/2 Dealing With Shorties Quote

      
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