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1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter 1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter

02-13-2015 , 09:42 PM
1 hour into new table. H is 20 something male. Played 1st 2 hands at table and got check raised on both then I folded. Only hand I have shown was QQ after raising button and busting a short stack. Doubt anyone is paying attention of course.

V is very loose reg. not super aggro but def not someone I expect to fold PF often when he enters the pot. He has already busted a 150bb initial buyin and is sitting on 250ish. Seems tilted.

V raises 6 mp one other V calls and hero(200 stack)makes it 23 with ako

V almost insa calls and other player calls

(65) 8-5-4r flop hero leads 30. V pauses and calls. Other player folds

(105) 8-5-4-5r check check

(105) 8-5-4-5-K hero leads 60 and V insta shoves

Hero?
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-13-2015 , 09:46 PM
Extra note. Don't remember specifics of how V lost his first stack but fairly sure called it off, didn't bluff it off
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-13-2015 , 10:19 PM
If he is tilted this is very much about reading villain. Your looking at about $140 to win about $400, tempting but not automatic.

Your hand looks very much like what it is, your raised pre with two big cards, c-bet the flop, checked turn and then hit the river. Is your villain tilted enough to shove worse for value? Shove as a bluff? Does he shove AK also? Would he call flop and check turn with a better made hand?

My inclination is puke/fold but I could go either way at the table.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-13-2015 , 10:51 PM
I can exclude AA since villan didn't 4bet you pre.

No boats or he would have bet turn.

I think AK, KQ, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99 so I would call.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-13-2015 , 10:56 PM
^ AA would play more aggressively earlier. If AA is flatting, checking back, then shoving the river it's so good the guy would be wasting his time at 1-2.

Why would a boat bet ott? In pos. with a nutted hand, let your guy see a free river and hit whatever he needs.

I want to fold because he didn't bet ott. If he floated your c-bet to steal ott, why didn't he bet ott? And your 3-bet range, if V is considering this, is all high pp's and AK. I think you're beat or tying AK a ton of the time.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-14-2015 , 12:30 AM
Super read dependent. I find that in scenarios like this villains have a monster. Playing passive then going crazy on the river = the nuts.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-14-2015 , 01:22 AM
You're math is a little off. V is shoving a pot sized bet. (195ish into 185 pot)
I think his range is wide enough here to call it off. But I do agree it's VERY read dependent. I would think he's doing this with 99-JJ (take out AA KK and maybe QQ with no 3 bet?) Does he play monsters (boats+) this passively otf and ott? Does he float flop with over cards? If so, KQ KJ (probably) and maybe K10? What about A-rag? Does he call light oop? Since Hero is leading, I assume you are in SB or BB? How about any physical tells? Have you noticed if he slows down with monsters? Moves quick on bluffs? That sort of thing. Just some things I would try to think about and think through before I would decide.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-14-2015 , 01:44 AM
Question: does hero have a $200 stack or 200bb stack?

Your math is off on the turn/river. The pot should be around $125.

If you have a $200 stack, you put yourself in a gross spot as you have put $113 in the middle and with $87 behind I don't see how you can fold (although I think you are behind a LOT.)

If you have a 200bb stack, looks like a fold to me. Your hand looks exactly like what it I doubt villain is trying to bluff you off of top pair.

We could probably torture our villain's range and create a scenario where calling off on the river is correct. I see no reason why villain would check back the turn with a pair like 99-QQ and then turn it into a bluff on the river. His tiltiness makes me think he is calling wide pre but that doesn't mean we can assume he is bluff shoving rivers against a card that hits your range hard.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote
02-14-2015 , 09:29 AM
Sorry for confusion and thank you everyone for the replies. Hero was in SB and sitting on 200, not 200 bbs.

I agree that I put myself in an awkward river spot. Would a better line be to C/C river with these stack sizes? Maybe check shove depending on V sizing IF he even bets. I fired the river afraid he would check behind.

RESULTS
Hero called and V showed K4s confidently. I showed my ak and V paused and mucked commented something along the lines of 'that's how bad I'm playing I didn't even notice the board pairing.' It seemed truthful. So although I dragged the pot I think I butched the hand. V was not bluff shoving in his mind and I think ak is a very thin call. Although the way this guy was steaming I could see him showing up with any K or random hand.

Last edited by DrunkTilt; 02-14-2015 at 09:43 AM.
1/2 ak makes river TP against tilter Quote

      
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