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1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players 1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players

09-02-2011 , 07:19 PM
Hero: Perceived as a TAG player at the table, haven't shown down too many cards. $250
V1: Loose player, mid 20s, seems very talkative. Has shown me a lot of his hole cards voluntarily during different hands so I've picked up a good read on him. $250
V2: A loose player, late 20s to early 30s, collared shirt and huge headphones on. Generally pretty aggressive having made an opponent lay down top two pair to his busted flush draw in a huge sidepot. $400
V3: Early 40s, generally plays very loose preflop and isn't afraid to take the lead with total rags. $120

1/2 NL $300 max 9 players

V3 Straddles to $5

Hero dealt 67
Hero calls, V1 calls, 2 folds, V2 raises to $22,3 folds, V3 calls, Hero calls, V1 calls.

FLOP($91): 445
V3 checks, hero checks, V1 checks, V2 bets $40, V3 calls, hero???
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-02-2011 , 07:27 PM
I call this $40 flop bet hoping to keep everyone in to give me best odds to draw. The problem with shoving here is that V3 is too short to fold any made hand or draw and given reads any of these players could actually have trips in this spot. If a spade hits the turn and Villian 1 has already dropped out I would consider leading turn if checked to, otherwise I would check turn hoping for a free card and the opportunity to steal the pot if I don't improve by river.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
Hero: Perceived as a TAG player at the table, haven't shown down too many cards. $250
V1: Loose player, mid 20s, seems very talkative. Has shown me a lot of his hole cards voluntarily during different hands so I've picked up a good read on him. $250
V2: A loose player, late 20s to early 30s, collared shirt and huge headphones on. Generally pretty aggressive having made an opponent lay down top two pair to his busted flush draw in a huge sidepot. $400
V3: Early 40s, generally plays very loose preflop and isn't afraid to take the lead with total rags. $120

1/2 NL $300 max 9 players

V3 Straddles to $5

Hero dealt 67
Hero calls, V1 calls, 2 folds, V2 raises to $22,3 folds, V3 calls, Hero calls, V1 calls.

FLOP($91): 445
V3 checks, hero checks, V1 checks, V2 bets $40, V3 calls, hero???
Silly to call off close to a tenth of your stack to play low SC's oop. Of course, you didn't know you would get raised, but with these guys, it couldn't have been too surprising. Fold rather than limp. Once I limp and get raised, I fold. Not worth it.

Great flop for you. It is unlikely anyone has a 4. (Come on - is V2 going to raise from early with 34s? Would V3 call off 20% of his stack with it?) Either of these guys having an overpair is much more likely. Raising shouldn't get them off it b/c it is hard for you to rep a 4 either. Also, V3 is committed. You won't get him off anything.

That said, $40 bucks to see another card in a $130 pot is a no-brainer with an OESD and a back door FD. Your over probably aren't clean. You almost have pot odds for the call, and if an 8 hits you will double or triple up for sure with possibly the same result from a three. Too tasty to worry about an unlikely check raise from V1.

Call the flop. Maybe you'll get another inexpensive card on the turn.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 01:01 AM
BTW - terrible bet-sizing by V2. If he has a hand, he is just asking to get stacked. If he is bluffing, it is a terrible bluff. He can't credibly rep a set of 4's.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 01:09 AM
So you have 50bb, and you limp/call a raise with 67s. Probably not the brightest Preflop action.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 05:24 AM
Grunch

I knew the solution to your problem simply from reading the title of this thread. Do not play weak drawing hands OOP. This is a fold pre (twice) at this table. At weak-tight tables you can get away with raising a hand like this on occasion, but not here.

As played, call. You are getting a good price and you have back door flush outs. I would probably be donking the turn if you turn a straight or spade.

On second thought, c/r probably isn't that bad here. V1 is probably cbetting a big portion of his range and V3 can probably have anything from 4x or 5x to over cards. Depends on whether or not you can handle the variance as to which you choose.

Edit: After reading other posts, I agree that V3's stack it too small for him to fold here (although you never know), calling flop is better.

Last edited by ThaPr0fess0r; 09-03-2011 at 05:28 AM. Reason: V3's stack size.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Goldman
So you have 50bb, and you limp/call a raise with 67s. Probably not the brightest Preflop action.
very understated but correct comment

at higher stakes you play speculative hands oop once in awhile for deception

$1/$2 is best played in a very striaghtforward manner i.e. wait for strong hands then bet them hard

as long as your starting hands requirements are not limited to AA,KK & AK
$1/$2 players will give you action when you get a hand
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 09:00 AM
fold pre and fold pre to the raise.

76s from upfront is only okay if the whole table is loose/passive (i'd prefer to either raise or fold it pre on a tight/passive table) fold on a loose/tight aggressive table.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Goldman
So you have 50bb, and you limp/call a raise with 67s. Probably not the brightest Preflop action.
Hey hotshot, if you read the post you'd see that I have 125bb to start the hand.

Professor, my read during the hand was that V2 was raising a big ace preflop, V3 is loose enough to defend his straddle with just about anything, V1 I felt had something along the lines of JT-QJ, etc. I limped because I figured 67s might be a good hand to play in a 4 or 5 handed pot.. table plays for the most part weak, the other players don't attack limpers usually..

On the flop I know V3 didn't flop a big hand, he seemed weak right off the bat, I figure he would lead here on the flop with a 4. When the pot checks around to V2 I figure his bet represented AJ-AK trying to make a stab at the pot. V3's call is what confused me the most because I know he didn't hit the 4, I figured he might hope to hit a turn card with a hand like KQ @ this point.

I ended up pushing here. Got V1 to fold instantly, V2 tanked for about 3 minutes and folded QQ, V3 called the rest of his stack with 23.
Turn was J, river was 9. I figured that my fold equity+pot equity with the straight draw, overs, and backdoor flush ~16 outs(discounting the backdoor draw a bit) was good enough to win it on the flop. With the range I put V2 on, I figured this was the best play.. although v3 being priced in should probably have made this a call on the turn because of the pot odds offered.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 03:19 PM
No you didn't. Hotshot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
Hero: $250

1/2 NL $300 max 9 players

V3 Straddles to $5
Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
Hey hotshot, if you read the post you'd see that I have 125bb to start the hand.
Way to count your 6 and 7, as over card outs. And way to throughout the hand use phrases like "I know" and the like, you seem to play largely based on intuition and fail to use sound logic and reasoning when making decisions. I would advise you that sometimes a great feel for the game isn't enough, you need to back that up with a sound theoretical skill set. Which is it apparent you lack.

In your hand, the best case scenario happened, and I'm sure this will inflate your ego and cause you to make a ton of future mistakes, because of positive reinforcement for terrible plays.

Best of luck in the future, I would advise you to work harder on your game and play less on feel and more based
on math to simplify it.

Keep working hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
I figured that my fold equity+pot equity with the straight draw, overs, and backdoor flush ~16 outs(discounting the backdoor draw a bit) was good

Last edited by Bo Goldman; 09-03-2011 at 03:25 PM.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 03:26 PM
Go troll elsewhere bro. What kind of constructive criticism did you offer? None, so unless you have an idea of how to play the hand as is, let me know. Otherwise don't bother wasting your time typing another post, I'm not reading it.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 03:31 PM
FWIW, $22 is less than 10% of my stack PF so I'm not committed if I miss. The idea of 3-1 odds to the flop are too good to pass up here, right?
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
FWIW, $22 is less than 10% of my stack PF so I'm not committed if I miss. The idea of 3-1 odds to the flop are too good to pass up here, right?
FWIW, Bo is correct. When there is a straddle, that is the blind, hence, how many BB you have is based on the straddle. And yes, you should fold pre IMO
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote
09-03-2011 , 04:09 PM
Playing SCs that low from early position is bad but whats worse is calling a raise as large as $22 with them. Im a very tight player with a very tight EP opening range but i do admittedly open sc's from early position just to balance my range. I'll never open for more than $11..I also only do this at tables in which its very unlikely I get 3bet without a monster.

As a tight player I'm folding all day to the bet and the call on the flop. Its just too big of a bet and even if you do hit your hand you'll either run into a full house or not get paid off too much of the time.
1/2: 67s OOP versus 3 LAG players Quote

      
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