I've made threads similar to this in the past. I've definitely tightened up a lot pre flop over the course of the past 6 months or so and have noticed very pleasant results...However, I worry that I may have tightened past the optimal point for LLSNL, and should maybe loosen up slightly? FWIW I'm a NIT/TAG, and I'm not looking to play LAG.

NOTE: this is a "rock" straddle game, meaning the person that won the previous hand has the straddle - i.e. if I was in HJ this hand and won the pot, I would straddle the next hand from LJ.

Spot #1: Passive player ($200 effective) who probably leans tight but is way too loose pre has the straddle in CO, loose passive ($700 effective) calls OTB, tight passive ($200 effective) calls +2, and hero is in LJ. TAG ($300 effective) is in HJ. What is your raising range here?

Spot #2: Tight passive ($300 effective) has straddle in HJ, loose passive ($300 effective limps OTB), it's folded to hero UTG. +1 ($200 effective) is a NIT, +2 ($400 effective) leans tight passive but is slightly looser and more aggressive than a traditional tight passive, and LJ ($500 effective) is loose passive. What is your raising range here?

Spot #3: Loose passive ($300 effective) has straddle in CO, hero is next to act OTB. SB ($150 effective) is tight passive, BB ($300 effective) is tight passive, UTG ($500 effective) leans LAG but is more passive than a textbook LAG, +1 ($400 effective) is loose passive, +2 ($800 effective) is loose passive, LJ ($400 effective) is a NIT, and HJ ($350 effective) is loose passive. What is your raising range here?

For #1 I think somewhere around suited broadways, suited aces, KJ/AT, 66+? Which is roughly my usual LJ range, you benefit some from nobody liking their hand enough to and trying to kick out TAG to your left, on the other hand if all call you'll be in a 4/5 way pot in second worst position. I think having a calling range could be okay here, if so, probably call smaller pps, suited connectors, suited aces if I didn't feel like raising them, maybe some of the bigger suited one-gappers if I don't think the players to my left would raise much.

For #2, probably roughly my usual open range UTG, 77+, AJ, KQ, some suited broadways and an occasional 87s to mix in.

For #3, probably roughly the same range as #1. We benefit from the button, but have a lot of remaining players who can wake up with AA/KK.

I guess what I would say is if this game is fairly passive preflop, this might be a spot I would expand my limping range, which is very rare for me. Tough to want to do with so much dead money out there, but I feel like a lot of limpers who have position on you are unusually likely to call back your raise, whereas in a traditional format you can blast away and each limper is individually faced with a 2:1 decision OOP and they just each muck (and induce a series of mucks behind, and you collect a lot of loose/dead money). So YMM(seriously)V, and you should very much adjust to your lineup more specifically than identifying them as LP/TP/LA/TA.

Spot #1 hands that play well postflop in addition to value hands
Spot #2 tight
Spot #3 loose

Not worried about players waking up with AA/KK.

Hand 1: Stacks are mostly shortish with the straddle in play so fairly tight despite the reasonably good situation. ATs+/AJo+/99+/QJs+. Throw in some suited face cards and lower suited connectors to mix up my range from time to time.

Hand 2: Stacks are deeper but hero's position is worse. Position dominates here. AJs+/AQo+/JJ+/KQs+. Throw in a few lower suited connectors to mix things up but likely no real bluffs.

Hand 3: This is the best of hands for hero. Despite all the possible action after hero has best position post flop. A9s+/ATo+/99+/suited face cards and more raises with worse hands. Not just suited connectors but suited one gappers and a few even worse hands.

For all of these hands I probably have more limps then raises. None of these hands are deep because of the straddle and the players are mostly loose/passive. It is generally a good situation for seeing a lot of cheap flops.

Are you concerned at all about going multiway OOP with the bottom of the raising range you posted for hand one? I don't really like limping positions that aren't BTN or SB because of rake.

I'm wondering the same thing about going mw OOP with the bottom of your range for hand #2.

These ranges aren't far off from what I'm using right now; I'm slightly looser in spot 2 and slightly tighter spot 3.

Not really -- I guess this is kinda what I mean about your mileage varying and needing to be nuanced about identifying who you're up against -- in LLSNL games that tend to be passive/don't see a lot of LRRs, this is my basic game plan anyways, open roughly that range, get 1-2 callers, c-bet, print. If you're always seeing a 5 way flop when you do this, then yeah, tightening up to the ranges QuadJ suggests seems good.

I guess the other thing I meant to include for my initial post is that your sizing should be larger than usual when you've seen a lot of the action preflop but stand to be OOP postflop. You want them to have to make their decision now (and ideally have the first decider set off a domino effect of folds when you're holding the bottom end), so I mean, 1/2/5 and two limps of 5 out there, blast it to 40 instead of 30, if that gets four calls the first time you do it, maybe even 45 or 50 next time.

spot #1 66+ AK AQ J10s 98s 87s 76s A4s A5s mix in some 87 98 97 off on occasion ; hands like KQ KJ QJ I split between call /fold

spot # 2 JJ+ AK 98s 87s

spot #3 JJ+ AK with all loose players pre yet to act even thou we have position post flop we can bloat a pot quickly with less than desired results

plus with so many short stacks it limits our post-flop play

Spot 1: suited aces, ATo+ KJo+ 66+ suited broadways. Situationally with 22+ QTo J9s or 65s-9Ts depending on game flow, live reads etc. I would default to folding those hands or limping the small pairs unless you are confident.

On average people want to open a lot looser than I have been. I think I'm going to experiment with opening slightly looser and seeing if I get into a bunch of mw OOP spots. If I do, I'll resort back to the ranges I'm using now. If I don't, I'll expand my ranges. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.