1/1 and the game just started. 4th hand.

V - looks like he is Garick's son. Wearing Garick pants with a tucked in shirt. 20-30 something white guy who is quiet. I caught him playing chess on his phone pre game. Never played with or seen him. My initial read is he is tighter than Garick's pants.

Hero - reads on me dont matter in this hand IMO.

100bb effective

3 limps to V in SB who makes it 15 more to go (15x raise)
Hero looks at AKo.

We call, shove, or fold? Put each decision in order of importance. What if we had AKs?

It's not guaranteed that the limpers will call if I just flat. Being this early in the game people are still tight. That's not to say it isn't impossible that one or all call.

Reads as super tight and is raising to 15x (not so huge in this game, but if you've never played him before he may not realize how huge PF raises often are in this game and see his as ridiculously gigantic). I fold pretty easily. Never flatting. If he's as tight as he seems, we're never getting more out of him on an A or K-high board unless he has a set. If he were a more normal denizen of these games, I'd shove it, and flip with his 88 or w/e if (when) he called.

Gotta trust Garick's read being that it's his son. Lol

Pretty sure you've never seen him either, Garick.

fold or click it back to 30 and see what he does

Doesn't ring any bells. How's the read looking now that the game's been going for a while?

Dont read spoiler. It may ruin the HH (possibly).

For Garick:

Is this for real? If so reasoning.

i doubt his range us only aa or kk. he could have qq jj aq aj. youll have position on him and if he reraises u can fold. if he calls and u hit an a or k its an easy stack off. folding pre us fine but id rather click it back than flat

Really? That just seems ridiculous to me. And if he does have these, do we expect them to call a 3-bet?

As for the "if he calls and u hit an a or k its an easy stack off," the SPR will be <3 even if we don't re-raise. Why do we have to get it down to 1 to stack off post with TPTK? And do we really expect him to call a shove with JJ or QQ on an ace or K-high flop? Not likely with or without the min-raise.

It really seems to me like you just want to raise "to see where you're at," which is very bad. There's basically no advantage to the min-raise except "if he reraises u can fold." This is fishy thinking.

I think flatting and shoving are close as long as you don't just play fit or fold on the flop. Personally I'm flatting.

A tight player that is raising that much usually has AK, JJ or QQ. If it was a normal game, I'd fold. However, you're in your banjo game and will get 1-2 callers beside you. That's enough to make it worthwhile to call and ace mine. You can shove, but you aren't then giving yourself the odds to make it worthwhile to play. I'm not folding the "nuts" in your game.

how do we know he´s a tight player? 4th hand
all we DO know is that he opened 15x and thus is likely some kind of btn clicker with not much clue. i´m gii, whatever

If you know he's tight, I fold, but if it's questionable, I ship it

This could be a AQ/AJ, "let me see where I am at" or a 55/66 "I don't want to see a flop" type raise

I personally and absolutely 0% polarized with this hand and will NEVER flat here

Probably folding. From experience, 10x+ raises in home games are always polarized to KK or AA. Obviously flipping at best vs other pairs.

Awkward game/stacks, I see game just started I bet it gets even more awkward with lots of shorties and some sitting at 200-300BB.

Fold beats shove, never calling.

I'm looking at 4th hand in and wondering how your read is so strong (assuming G's pants are super tight)?

Calling vs. unknowns.

Bolding the parts that I was thinking about last night when Ace texted this to me.

If this was likely going heads up only I would consider a fold as more money would *likely* only go in postflop if we were beat. Have some calling monkeys behind us makes me a little more open to a call as even if villain has QQ/JJ there is still value to be had from others if we flop TPTK+.

I would have to have a more confident read on this guy before I am willing to let this go in position on the raiser 4 hands in.

Never stated in the OP that my read is "so strong." With that said I do trust my stereotyping ability until someone proves me wrong.

G's pants are very tight.


FWIW... I hated calling, thought it was the worst of all the options. I think his range is hands that have us dominated and hands we are only a slight dog to/flipping with. Maybe TT-QQ, but mostly JJ-QQ. Pretty nitty range, but I think it is close. Even if it is a tad wider I still hate calling. I thought folding and shoving were pretty close, but folding was slightly better until I got a better read, and calling was the last thing I should do.

I only posted this because I texted Skippy after the hand and his opinion was different than mine. I wanted to see which side had a bigger vote. Seems somewhat split so far.

shove

shovings horrible unless your trying to get him to fold jj/qq which prob. isnt happening

I'm basing the call on the fact that there' a chance others will call based on game description and unknown nature of villain which means he could be doing it with worse Ax. If none of those are true, then fold. I don't see how shoving is any good. If your read is right you're crushed. If it's wrong, you'd be better served flatting.

Grunch:
I folded semi quickly.

After reading replies and thinking for a min. I like calling. Can I get my cards back?

I changed my mind as well. First instinct was to turbo muck. I think shoving is the worst option. Let's at least peel the flop.

The thing is AK plays way better when you get to see all 5 cards. Calling to fold flop when we miss is suboptimal IMO. I think shoving is better than calling because we know zero about him and he may fold a better or the same hand (probably not, but maybe), we get to see all 5 cards, and we haz the blockers, which is not to say he doesn't have AA/KK here just that combo wise we are more likely to be flipping/slight dog.

That is my argument for shoving > calling. Shoving vs folding.... Welllllll... I've seen just about enough hands to know that folding here is not the worst option in the world until he proves otherwise. How many times have we justified an action based on make believe info where really the info is pretty obvious? This feels like one of those spots. I think it's still pretty close between the two though.

Calling puts us in a weird spot. For those calling are you auto stacking off on King and Ace high boards where v cbets into us? I think the answer has got to be yes, and I think that sucks because until we know if he is a cbet aggro monkey we have to feel like we hate life when doing so. That's not to say that is the only reason I hate calling pre, just one of the reasons (probably the smallest reason).

I'm calling to keep worse from folding, like AQ, AJ, KQ, so yeah I'm stacking off on A and K high boards barring something crazy happening. But if you're calling and then folding to a half pot cbet on a 943 board then yeah shoving is probably better than calling for you.