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07-24-2013 , 07:20 PM

arbymou

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5

Table is loose-passive preflop (alot of limpers).
Hand started out with 8 players (pot = $8).

Hero: Q

(Stack = $500)
Villain: (Stack = $230)

Flop Q

Hero bet out $6
Villain Calls $6
Rest folds.

Turn: 2

(pot = $20)
I bet out $12
Villain Raises to $ 42

My reads on Villain: Fairly tight player. Doesn't normally bluff with air, mainly semi-bluffs (or information raises but have not seen him do this often). I've clashed into his aggressive mode before, where he flopped a set.
As for this hand, I suspect him to have a Q, or made full house, where he is more likely to raise with a full house or high kicker Q.

What are your thoughts? Call/Raise/Fold?

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07-24-2013 , 08:31 PM

playertee

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,999

What's your position, and why is this limped pre-flop?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

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07-24-2013 , 10:06 PM

SuqAta8

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 21,876

raise pre if you didnt

if V is super tight, flat turn, and c/c river (V is basically repping one credible hand- 88 - when he raises turn)

against an opponent with no reads, prob 3betting turn and getting it in on turn or river

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07-24-2013 , 10:13 PM

minimals

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 252

Eh, definitely raise this hand pre. Broadway hands play far worse the more players that go to the flop and frankly because of the 8 way flop this feels like a huge cooler for you.

You need to determine how many Q's he can have in his range here. I don't necessarily think it's concrete that he is only playing a big Q or FH this way if he has just Qx he has such a strong hold on this board that I don't see why he wouldn't raise that hand for value here. If he is such a nit that he's only raising back a big Q or 88 - you got coolered.

Frankly the situation, without reads, I think is a shove here.

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07-24-2013 , 10:24 PM

dark_hatchling

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 338

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimals

Frankly the situation, without reads, I think is a shove here.

I'm pretty much in this boat.

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07-24-2013 , 10:27 PM

minimals

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_hatchling

I'm pretty much in this boat.

Just so you know agreeing with me on these forums is -EV.

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07-24-2013 , 11:40 PM

philip1010

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 625

How does no1 think 22 is a possibility? He called flop possibly thinking a flush draw out there.

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07-24-2013 , 11:40 PM

philip1010

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 625

But I'm also shoving as well, if he has 88 or 22 gg you

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07-25-2013 , 03:17 AM

arbymou

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by playertee

What's your position, and why is this limped pre-flop?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

I was oop on villian.

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07-25-2013 , 03:21 AM

#10

arbymou

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5

As for preflop raises. Im usually dont preflop raise against these guys. They'll give respext 1-2x preflop. After that they'll usually all just call, and if someone hits a funky hand, i stand to lose big pots if cont playing agressively. But most will play fitnornfold on flop.

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07-25-2013 , 03:35 AM

#11

arbymou

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimals

You need to determine how many Q's he can have in his range here. I don't necessarily think it's concrete that he is only playing a big Q or FH this way if he has just Qx he has such a strong hold on this board that I don't see why he wouldn't raise that hand for value here. If he is such a nit that he's only raising back a big Q or 88 - you got coolered.

Frankly the situation, without reads, I think is a shove here.

My read was that was that he must have Qx+ (99% sure). I won't expect him to make this move with Q low kicker (lower than 10). Although not raising with lower kicker isn't 100%, but more toward 80-90% sure. Remainders are q10+ and fullhouses. Where he might slowplay fh to trap or sometimes fast play fh against drawouts.

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07-25-2013 , 05:16 AM

#12

madlondoner

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,515

Raise pre. Can't be bothered to explain why to counter your argument. I probably flat thr turn raise. Raising is bad as we are losing to a lot of his range when we get it in.

In a raised pot your hand is really strong. In a limped pot their combos of houses massively increases.

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07-25-2013 , 05:22 AM

#13

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbymou

So you just never raise and never get any value from big hands? AA? KK?

Raise. That's why it's NL. So you can raise. Find the point where you don't get the whole table calling. $5? $10? $20? Eventually you will get the number of opponents you want.

As for the hand as played, I'd call the $42 and evaluate the river.

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07-25-2013 , 05:38 AM

#14

madlondoner

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,515

Yes if you are raising on the turn it would be better to get a lighter out an burn your money.

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07-25-2013 , 06:22 AM

#15

arbymou

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly

So you guys wouldnt be bothered with a possible 150-170 all in on the river (basically with any river card?).

As for aa, kk hands, usually i make it vary on my position if i raise or limp in. But sometimes i try to vary it as well and balance with pfr with lesser hands.

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07-25-2013 , 08:07 AM

#16

bulls_horn

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbymou

So you guys wouldnt be bothered with a possible 150-170 all in on the river (basically with any river card?).

So you flat turn and on the river shove 150-170 into a ~$104 pot. Ugh. Are you going to get called here with Q9? I doubt it. But 22 will moon-walk around the table as he calls.

Limping pre is just so fishy anyway, but with KQ? Really? The table only plays fit/fold because you let them.

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