I am trying to develop my post flop play and am interested in double barreling. However I am struggling to see the profitability in it because it seems to me that you have to put a lot on the line for little reward. Eg if I already have $60 in a heads up hand and I double barrel for $120 looking for a fold then I stand to make roughly $60. But if Villain sees I’m bluffing and calls and I lose the hand then I’ll lose $180 total in the hand. That means even if I get it right 3 out of 4 times I’ll only be breaking even.

Can someone give me advice on the profitability of double barreling?

Here is an example hand I played recently:

NL 2/3 100-500.

Hero ($350) dealt 9s9h in CO. 3 limpers to Hero including Villain in MP ($220, average young player somewhat tight slightly more passive than aggressive). Hero open raises to 20. Villain is the only caller.

Flop ($51) 6d 10d 6h

Villain checks. Hero bets $35. Villain calls.

Turn ($121) Ad.

Villain checks. Hero? It looks like a pretty obvious place to double barrel I guess. How much would you size the bet for? And what if Villain is slow playing the flush or something? All it takes is for that to happen 1 in 4 times and you’re just breaking even if you double barreled for $120.

You don't need to double barrel for pot. 1/2 to 3/4th pot will often work just as much.

Double barreling works well in deeper stacked weak passive games. V's are loose pre flop yet start to get really scared money as soon as big bets go in post flop. My favorite game type. Sounds like the game you are in.


Also, this isn't a great board to double barrel. We are only getting folds by JxTx QxTx and KxTx. The KT/QT/JT combos that have a diamond redraw aren't folding. We heavily block T9 combos. This V may not even call a PF raise with a T unless it is specifically TT or AT, two hands that won't fold to a double barrel. JJ, KK, QQ obv never limp pre...


Every other hand that folds to our bet we were way ahead of anyway so I would give up here and try to get to a cheap showdown. A better hand to double barrel would be KQo or KJo with one of those cards being a diamond. This way we have more equity when called and don't block hands that would fold to our turn bet such as 99 or 98

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/7...reling-651776/

The link above doesn't work.

Thanks for your feedback.

Doesn’t Villain run the risk that I hit the flush?

What would be an example of a better board for double barreling?

Also, doesn’t the fact that V checked the flop put in doubt whether he has a T and doesn’t him checking the turn show some weakness even if he has it that I could exploit by firing the second barrel?

V is unlikely to donk with a T. He will check to the PF raiser most of the time. He's also probably not extremely worried about the flush, as most FD type hands will overlimp in these games. The only FDs in your range (if he even thinks about range) are AhTh+.

I think the A is a pretty good card for barrelling vs. thinking players, as our raise pre and c-bet range so often contains an ace. Assuming that I think this guy has a fold button, I'd make it about half pot, and if called I'd likely fire a third bet on a non-heart river. Against the average LP donk, though, I'd check back for our SDV in this WA/WB spot.

I'd just check this down. You have like very little equity when called and don't have such a big range advantage to justify betting stuff like this. You do still beat some hands. You have much better hands in your range to bluff with, like KdQ and similar hands.

Based on the posts Ive read of yours the past couple weeks, I assume you are a beginner. Poker looks like an easy game. I mean you have 2 cards how hard can it be? But its very complex.

As a beginner, I suggest you stick to ABC tight aggressive almost nitty style until you are winning consistently. There are too many advanced concepts for a beginner to try to pick them all up at once. Pick one thing to work on at a time and when you get pretty good at it, add in another new play. Not that double barrelling is advanced, but you need to know when and when not to use it or you will go on massive swings.

I dont like this as a spot to double barrel at all. On the flop hes going to have a flush draw, 6x, or Tx most of the time. When he has Tx, it will be AT some of the time.

Ifs not a good card to barrel in this spot and you have show down value if he happens to have a smaller pocket pair. Just check it down.

Also, your theory of how much you win or lose with a bluff isnt correct.

Take this hand for example:

I raise a limper to $25. He calls.
Flop ($50) QT4...X/X
Turn ($50) 3. he bets $20 I call
River ($90) 2. He bets $20. I raise to $100.
If he folds, I win the $110 in the pot. If he calls I lose $100.

I dont win $110 in the hand if he folds. I only have $65 more than I started with, but I have $110 more than if I fold so the bluff nets me $110 if he folds. I need him to fold a little less than 50% of the time for this to be profitable. But I have no showdown value. Well, very little anyway.

Your hand is more complicated

You have showdown value against lower pocket pairs or a gutshot (78/89). Also, when calculating money made or risked from bluffs like you're trying to do, you're not losing $180 if your turn pot bet doesnt work. You already put the $55 in. Its not yours anymore. You have to look at your turn bet on its own to see if its a good bluff spot or not.

If you bet $120, you're risking $120 to win back $120. As someone said, you dont have to bet $120. In fact you shouldnt bet $120. Its way too much.

Thanks for the info!

Yeah I’m a beginner to playing regularly and thinking properly about strategy. I started off losing most of the time and then developed a tight somewhat aggressive game (I could be more aggressive) and I’ve started winning more of the time now.

I am trying to add more to my game and would like to be able to play a bit more post flop. I am trying to focus on adding in one element at a time to my game just as you suggest and at the moment I’m focusing on firing a second barrel. I’ve never fired a second barrel before but have developed some understanding of cbets so looking to understand double barrels now.

I personally really want to say to anyone who is new to live poker, never double barrel. Keep our pools soft and our degens back in action.

Money you put into the pot is no longer yours.

Have a good reason for why you are betting. Generally you should be betting because you have a strong hand and want to get called, or you have a not so good hand, or have a draw, but have reason to believe that you can get better hands to fold. If you have a medium hand like this one are just betting because you think you should be betting, you are doing it wrong.

I don’t even understand what this means!

It does now.

Just FYI, but based in how often you are posting concept questions, you aren't giving enough time to really understand and practice one concept before you move on to the next

Thanks.

Yeah but I find that in one four hour session at the tables the opportunity to double barrel might come up only once or twice. So if I just focus on that I’m not learning anything the rest of the time.

I’ve studied a number of university degrees and lots of languages and find I learn quickest, best when I expose myself to a lot of information and then select out what I need and apply it at the right times. Now when a double barrel spot arises I’ll have some info to draw on even if most of the time I’m focusing on my preflop selection, preflop raising and putting opponents on a range (the latter which I’m having a lot of trouble with).

Thanks that was a great link.

Where can you find these COTW (Concept of the Week) threads on this site? I’m sure there’s plenty more useful information I can read there.

You can find this forum's Concept of the Month threads here, and the Micro-Stakes Full-Ring online forum's Concepts of the Week here.

Double barrel this board with your 2 Broadway turned gutsjot hands to make small pairs fold. With pairs under the t check back and try get a cheap showdown.

This balances out the times you cb your books trips and turned flushes ax

I read this and the 1st thing I think is "this guy has ADD and can't focus"

you should be watching other players, their betting habits , movements, shown down hands . c-bet frequency and 1000 other things

I would probably just overlimp preflop but whatever that's me.

I'm cool with the flop bet.

By the turn, everything got there if it wasn't already there before. There's also very few better hands we are targetting with a double barrel to fold (basically Tx, which a lot of the time is AT which is obviously never folding). I think this is a pretty easy check back and hope to get to showdown.

Overall, my guess is that you're still early enough in your development that you likely shouldn't concern yourself too much with double barreling (ETA: And if you do, focus on SABR's comment as to why you are double barreling) and instead focus on other basics.

GcluelessNLnoobG