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2/5 dealing with uknown 2/5 dealing with uknown

11-17-2016 , 03:22 PM
Villain $630 Young white guy. Has played 4 of 5 hands since hero sat down. Limped 4 times and folded once, was raised twice and called both times. Check/folded the flop twice and bet out twice and took it down. I have not seen any show downs yet. Obvious fishy vibe but otherwise unknown, I have never seen him before.

Hero $1000 middle aged white guy. Just sat down and have folded every hand so far.

Button $1200 old white guy. Tight/passive/sticky.

EP limp, villain limps MP and button limps
SB limps
Hero in bb checks Kc9d.

$25 in pot
Flop is KdQhQc
SB checks
Hero checks
Limper checks
Villain bets $15
Folds around to hero
Hero calls
Limper folds

$55 in pot
KdQhQc3s
Hero checks
Villain bets $25
Hero ?

Preflop is obvious and I'm not giving up top pair with a decent kicker to the first bet. The turn bet feels a bit like villain is trying to reel me in but he is selling it real cheap.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 03:52 PM
I can go either way. I probably call and try to get a reaction from him on the river.

Raising could be fun, but costly and I don't see the point.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:06 PM
I probably call, but it's close and don't hate a fold. Just such a nice price. Never raising obviously.
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11-17-2016 , 04:24 PM
Sounds like V is there to play cards, and did not come to fold. Call and reevaluate the river - your K is likely good

Precursor...I'm a nit
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11-17-2016 , 04:38 PM
I probably click the cawl button but I don't feel great about it
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11-17-2016 , 04:43 PM
Let's assume he bets $50 on the river....a call might good just for the info? May pay dividends later since you don't know Vs game.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 04:49 PM
I'd fold given the little info we have. KT/KJ beat us, and of course QX combos. There may be quite a few QX given his VPIP, albeit a miniscule sample.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 07:51 PM
On the turn I wasn't happy but I decided I couldn't give up top pair with a decent kicker for that price.

Pot $105
KdQhQc3s7c
Hero checks
Villain bets $60
Hero ?

River is a brick. Weird sizing on the river. It's a bigger percentage then the turn but even for a value bet it's on the small side. Particularly for 2/5, the pot is still small in dollars/blinds because it was a limped pot.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 08:00 PM
I'm probably sigh calling river too, given how much you underrep'd your hand. Don't show your hand if you lose, just take a note of what he shows and then muck.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 08:17 PM
Agree. Call, get info, win or muck.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-17-2016 , 11:42 PM
He probably never bets K10 KJ on river, so youre calling
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 03:15 AM
Call.

And the turn was a trivial call also.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 05:03 AM
I feel I'm alone here, but I just fold flop. I'm pretty nitty though out of the blinds, especially in limped pots. You assume he's kinda fishy but he is pretty much a complete unknown to you. Usually in a limped pot, most players are not betting with worse than K9 on that board. Against a bad player, that I know limps a whole bunch of trash and likes to bet a lot, yeah I could call this down.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig6565
I feel I'm alone here, but I just fold flop. I'm pretty nitty though out of the blinds, especially in limped pots. You assume he's kinda fishy but he is pretty much a complete unknown to you. Usually in a limped pot, most players are not betting with worse than K9 on that board. Against a bad player, that I know limps a whole bunch of trash and likes to bet a lot, yeah I could call this down.
This is a very viable play against a tight villain
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11-18-2016 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I can go either way. I probably call and try to get a reaction from him on the river.

Raising could be fun, but costly and I don't see the point.
Check raising gets him to fold a better K a fair amount of the time and gets value from JT. Instead of calling $25 on the turn and calling the $70 on the river, why not raise check raise the turn to $95?

I wouldnt try that if hes capable of bluffing the river with JT if he calls turn and you check river to him though.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
Pot $105
KdQhQc3s7c
Hero checks
Villain bets $60
Hero ?
I'm folding. I don't see how we can beat a limping range that consists of Q7s+, QJ, QK, QTs, QA, KJ, even AK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Check raising gets him to fold a better K a fair amount of the time and gets value from JT.
check raising the turn is spew. This guy bet 15 into 25 vs 5 players in a limped pot on a paired flop and continued betting the turn after we called. You're not getting him to fold a better king bc he probably doesn't have one.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 12:45 PM
I did end up calling the river bet, in part out of curiosity of what he plays this way.

Villain turned out to have K7s. Villain didn't realize that the two pair he already had was better so pairing the 7 on the river didn't actually improve his hand. Villain went on to spew off 2K in short order and leave.

It was a hand that left me second guessing the whole way though. Against most of the regulars I would make a tight fold on the turn, figuring they are not continuing small with a Qx or worse Kx. There are some that will take cheap stabs but they would either check or bet more on river.
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11-18-2016 , 01:17 PM
1)Fold flop OR minraise + give up
2)If u call flop u obviously have to call turn here + give up river
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
I did end up calling the river bet, in part out of curiosity of what he plays this way.

Villain turned out to have K7s. Villain didn't realize that the two pair he already had was better so pairing the 7 on the river didn't actually improve his hand. Villain went on to spew off 2K in short order and leave.
Awesome. I hope you got some of the 2K!
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 01:32 PM
Guy has the ole bet sizing tell in this hand
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
I did end up calling the river bet, in part out of curiosity of what he plays this way.

Villain turned out to have K7s. Villain didn't realize that the two pair he already had was better so pairing the 7 on the river didn't actually improve his hand. Villain went on to spew off 2K in short order and leave.

It was a hand that left me second guessing the whole way though. Against most of the regulars I would make a tight fold on the turn, figuring they are not continuing small with a Qx or worse Kx. There are some that will take cheap stabs but they would either check or bet more on river.
Your V would have check raised a Q had you bet the flop....given what we know he would have acted weak with the check, then casually tossed in the raise...
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 02:15 PM
Fold to the first bet.
2/5 dealing with uknown Quote
11-18-2016 , 04:27 PM
Fish that don't bet often enough for value or as a bluff mean that you should bet more for value and over fold against their aggression

I think this is a tough spot against a good player and a trivial fold against a player we can assume is a bit more on the passive side.

If this was a good LAG I'm calling flop, calling turn, folding river.

Against a maniac I'm calling down

Against a passive or nitty player i wanna call at least the flop bet but I'm not trying to give a ton of action here.

(* We will have better hands to defend with here like JT and Qx. If we are going to get aggro or sticky with some of the hands in our range it's prob better we use hands that aren't drawing so dead to most of our opponents betting range. We have between 2 and 3 outs way too often here for my liking.)
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11-18-2016 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
I'm folding. I don't see how we can beat a limping range that consists of Q7s+, QJ, QK, QTs, QA, KJ, even AK.


check raising the turn is spew. This guy bet 15 into 25 vs 5 players in a limped pot on a paired flop and continued betting the turn after we called. You're not getting him to fold a better king bc he probably doesn't have one.
Wrong again
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11-18-2016 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Wrong again
You are being results oriented.

Play this hand 100 times and we win maybe 15 times out of 100.

It's not about being right or wrong in one given hand, it's about taking information at hand and making the best decision possible.

If you were above recreational, you would understand that.
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