Thoughts?

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.4 SB) Hero is SB with T T
UTG calls, CO calls, BTN raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls, BTN caps!, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls

Flop: (20 SB) K K Q (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, BTN bets, Hero folds, BB calls, UTG folds, CO folds

Turn: (11 BB) Q (2 players)
BB checks, BTN bets, BB calls

River: (13 BB) J (2 players)
BB bets, BTN calls all in

the pot is huge, i hate the flop fold. you're getting enough odds to draw to a ten. i think you should call flop and fold turn UI unless you get hu with btn, then i would call down.

we aren't closing the action; if we call and it gets raised, we don't have the odds to call 2sb to win 22+.

And reverse implieds; AK has redraws, KQ has us drawing dead.

nope i would call one time

you're getting good enough price to draw to your 2outer if it were clean; and yeah by itself its not cuz sometimes you're up against QQ/KK/KQ, but i think it's clean often enough imo when you factor in that extra 0.5 outs for your BDSD. i know it sucks not closing the action but i dont think it gets checkraised all that often since button has shown so much strength and the flop came scary.

wat.

I know our position sucks and there are some reverse implied odds issues but this pot is just too big. Also, since you were one of the PF action givers the risk of a Flop raise is much reduced when you don't make it.

Depending on what happens on the Flop I'd be fine with a Turn fold. We just have to keep in mind that the PF capper may barrel off all the way in this huge pot.

And why not post in the Micros? It’s a great forum!

We have not great reverse implied odds and we're not closing the action (I think this is key rather than our reverse implied odds.)

I can see cases for being an optimist and calling (something I usually advocate) but here I'm going to advocate for realism and just fold.

oh yeah plus once in a blue moon we have the best hand

lol i know not very often but probably worth another 0.5 outs or somethign like that, just another reason to peel imo

I peal, we cant worry about a c/r, we have to play with the info we have.

Fold turn ui obv

If we are planning on drawing strictly for turning a boat... then I'd fold the flop, this is going to get checkraised a decent % of the time, and our implied odds aren't nearly as great as they'd be in other situations... we can be drawing dead here, and there are plenty of redraws for Kx or Qx when we do turn it.

I think this hand is fine... given BTN isn't a raging lunatic.

if it's capped preflop with 4+ more players. you have odds to peel off one more for 1 bet.

Gotta call one here with the FH outs and the BDSD...if it gets raised/RR'd behind me then I might consider that I'm already drawing nearly dead and find a fold.

Well, unfortunately, BTN is a raging lunatic and shows up with A8o. lol. This was readless at the time though.

I prob should start posting these in micros, sry about that.

I completely disagree about the "given the information" at the time argument for peeling. The information I'm given is that there are 4 others in this pot and didn't care that it getting 3bet and capped. From a percentage breakdown:

96% we fold on the turn U/I, readless.
Of the 4% of the time we hit on the turn:
x% we are drawing dead.
y% we are drawing live and villain's (or somebody's) Kx redraws and beats us. (I think with 14% frequency; 1 king, 3 queens, and 3 x)

So in summary, our implieds are at least somewhat offset by our reverse implieds. Assuming they cancel out exactly, we are essentially drawing for neutral to slightly positive pot equity. BUT, the moment it gets raised and we call the extra sb, effectively calling 2sb to win 24+ sb, it becomes SUPER -EV. Calling for a 22.5:1 shot with 12:1 odds is clearly burning money.

It ironically makes me feel better when AT beats out A8 in this spot. There may be some merit to calling hoping we have the best hand.

Without a read, I think it is an unecessary worry to fear a c/r.

As apoker player we have to play our hand in the given situation, we dont play it blindly.

Also, I would assume at 0.25/0.50 as I would at 4/8 that Kx is waiting until the turn to raise. So far from expecting a c/r I expect this to go to the turn for 1 or 0 bets.

In defense of posting the hands here, 25c/50c online is probably on par with the 8/16 HK hands which get posted here.

If I were Supreme Dictator of 2+2, I'd probably just combine uS and SS and reassign the range to <= 25c/50c online, <= 10/20 live, and then MS should take .5/1 to 5/10 online and 10/20 to 40/80 live. It's kind of funny to have 3/6 online hands posted in the same forum as 3/6 live hands since the opponents are vastly different.

OTOH, I think fewer good players would visit SS if the 3/6 online hands were posted in MS, so everyone would probably suffer if I were Supreme Dictator.

*grunch*

board pairs... its scary but we have odds for our two outs to a fullhouse, call this flop all day and night.

Your only getting about 100:1 to call the flop and draw to a 10.

By 100:1, you mean 20:1, which is less than the required 22.5:1. Factor in some bets on turn and river, minus bets lost when we are dead to a higher boat (or get redrawn out to a higher boat), + we aren't closing the action.

Meh, but that was what i was thinking. Seems like everyone else says "Peel YOU NIT". lol.