8/16 Live

Table has gotten strange the last couple orbits, seems like everyone has gone card dead at the same time and a couple people (myself included) have started stealing the blinds with raises almost every hand. At least a few people have noticed this and started raising hands they would have called earlier.

Villian in EP is slighly loose, aggressive, but not terrible post-flop. EP+1 is a thinking player, but has gotten caught in at least one or two strange bluffs, not sure of him yet.

Preflop:
EP raises, EP+1 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero looks down at TT and calls, all fold

(first mistake? should I have capped or folded?)

Flop: 3 players, 9.5SB
862
EP checks, EP+1 checks, hero bets, all call

Turn: 3 players, ~6BB
9
EP checks, EP+1 checks, hero bets, EP raises, EP+1 3-bets, Hero folds.

Comments? I didn't like this hand, but wasn't sure I could give EP+1 credit preflop for a bigger pocket pair. I was absolutely certain he was thinking enough to understand the benefits of isolating the loose raiser in EP, so I discounted his 3-bet slightly. On later thought I felt that I should have capped preflop if I was going to play.

I think I cap preflop, especially considering that it sounds like EP+1 could be trying to weakly isolate a weak EP raise.

I count 6 outs on the turn, all of which look pretty solid given the play so far; if EP just calls and doesn't cap behind us, we're getting 13:2. Good enough to continue here?

GcluelessnoobG

Had this not been an iso raise before us, I would lean towards call, however thinking there could be an iso raise in the mix, I cap.

Flop: Nothing else you can do but bet.

Turn: I cant fold here, I dont put both players on overpairs, I am suprised if either has an overpair.

If EP+1 is the thinking player you think he is, no way does he have an overpair that he checks on the flop and checks again on the turn.

He would be playing a set very poorly if he checked it twise also. I am having trouble putting EP+1 on a hand, possible A9/K9.

EP would be more of a worry, as he is c/r into two others. He could possibly have a set. I doubt he has an overpair, again, I am thinking A9.

If we are getting 13-2 with a clean 6 outer, that might not even be behind, I find a call.

I may have misposted this hand, I knew there were two diamonds but I don't remember having a straight draw with the TT on the turn. Sorry for the mistake. Actually makes for a more interesting hand if there was a straight draw on the turn though...

I know you're looking at a change in game texture here and thinking with previous action this is a good time to play TT. Unfortunately, I think you should have folded preflop. Yes the table dynamics have changed recently, but these raises came from EP. I think one of them probably has you beat already, and it's going to be quite expensive to find out.

With no straight draw, I'm folding this overpair to the turn 3bet at my table always. One of them might be crazy check/raising with overcards/flushdraw (or 99) but I highly doubt both of them are.

Yeah, my big question on the his hand was more about preflop play, I felt good about the laydown on the turn.

Laydown on the turn is standard. For 1 big bet, however, you'd be seeing the river card I think.

Preflop I'd never call 3 cold. You say EP2 is a thinking player? A thinking player is going to think "hey, that guy is not bad and he just took 3 to the face. He has 99-JJ or AK" That's a pretty small range to put you on and let's be honest, it's the exact range you'd ever consider a 3-bet cold call with, amirite? I'd cap it personally.

how is this not a fold pf? if everyone was getting crazy steal-happy i could see maybe 4bet, but most people don't try to steal the blinds from EP so i usually fold(esp. if you are next in behind the 3bettor with alot of people left to act).

yeah, folding preflop is good too. But if you're going to play I think you have to cap it.

PF: I don't generally cap with TT, though perhaps not bad in this situation, as it likely ensures you will have position for the rest of the hand. If you just call 3, you increase the chance that (in a live game at least) more people will overcall. I probably don't fold here often enough, and perhaps should.

FLOP: Good for you, bet here is standard.

TURN: Ruh Roh - check 3 bet. Hmmm.. you are getting 6 to 1 for a call here, but are between 8 to 1 and 12 to 1 to make a hand like top set or straight, and the set may be no good. I doubt you are good UI, though I've seen stranger things. For instance, EP or EP+1 could have A9s or K9s, and are being super aggressive - read dependent.

Hmmm. Sometimes I'm folding and sometimes I'm calling here, at the moment I'm thinking the fold is correct.

AB

This was the mantra running through my mind, either fold it expecting to be behind a 3-bet range, or cap it and keep the pot shorthanded and ensure position for the rest of it. I flip-flopped back and forth back and forth, then made the worst decision and just called (and immediately worried that my range for this essentially turned my hand face up to EP+1).

Still wondering if there's a decisive move between cap or fold, and if the table texture and player reads (ie possible isolation 3-bet) affects it enough to change that.

It all depends on the other two players ranges, of which you can never be sure. By default, as James said, this is probably a fold. With the lineup you described and hopefully wider ranges, I think capping becomes an option.

Again, I throw my hat in the ring behind jesse. The classic answer to TT against a 3-bet is "it depends." Against LP's, I think it's a fold, but against a LAG and a TAG trying to iso, cap it and resteal the initiative. But as others have been saying, it's either cap or fold. Calling narrows your range far too much, and capping gains the initiative and could get the original raiser to fold, which would be a huge coup.

I like hats. Thanks

I fold preflop to an EP raise and another EP reraise. As played flop is perfect. Turn is a fold w/out the straight draw. Looks like 88 for c/3bettor and maybe KK for EP raiser?

EP had JJ for an overpair.
EP+1 had 99 for a set on the turn.

"g"

I think fold is the play PF. TT is too vulnerable to overs IMO. If not a fold, then definitely a cap is in order.

On the flop, I can't believe you didn't get c/r, and I would have then been very suspicious on the turn. I think I would have taken a free one and then reevaluate river.

As played, I'm wondering about calling the turn tho...

You would have been getting 6:1 (12BB w/ 2BBneeded to call) Even if EP caps, you'd be getting 5:1 to call. Assuming no cap, and with 6 outs (I know, there's a FD there), you're a 40:6 dog (6.67:1)... I would have been tempted. I'm not too concerned about the diamond flush draw, since I think if EP had it, he would have c/r you on flop to chase EP1, who would then not be getting thin odds to chase any 6 outers, and it was EP1 that got active on the non-diamond turn. I think he's probably got a set of 9's.
You said these guys were noticing the steals, and you caught the turn 3 bettor in some odd bluffs. I would have to say this is a spot I would get frisky in and see what happens.

You've always got the river to fold...

Finally, is there any merit to a turn cap?

Disregard all of the above...

Fold PF. But at least in the str8 draw scenario, I had EP1's hand pegged. Woo Hoo!

Even though some may be stealing in LPs I don't see them doing this in EPs in this game too much. Looks like they both woke up with hands they both liked a lot. That said, I play on this game with Hyperr about once a week or so and you see some pretty crazy hands at times.

Also FWIW-as for capping with TT(not talking Specifically about this hand)I cap with it more than just call 3 bets after I have raised with it way more than I used to. My default play for some raeson use to be raise with TT but just call a 3 bet. Not sure why I was doing that last year. Fear of bigger Pairs I guess. Same goes for JJ btw. Nobody ever thinks that someone would cap TT or JJ in the game above and we get paid huge when we win the pots.

$.02