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Stealing in small stakes games Stealing in small stakes games

01-05-2013 , 07:08 PM
I used to open raise a normal high percentage from the button in 8/16 and lower games. I don't anymore. Now I raise only top third or so of hands on the button. I believe it is difficult to overcome the high rake in this spot. Furthermore, I fold big blind to single raiser far more often than I ever would online or in higher game. Thoughts?
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 09:53 AM
It seems fine on paper, but no two games are the same. If the small blind is folding a lot then I open a lot wider than 40%, which is my baseline against unknowns at a high rake table. If they're never folding preflop then having a value only range is fine, hands like 65o suck here. On the other hand, if they're never folding preflop then they're likely to suck postflop where you could potentially make up any preflop disadvantage, depending on their level of suck of course. Against good players in the blinds I think your plan is fine, but I think that should be the exception and not the rule.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 10:33 AM
This isn't talked about much, but the rake in a poker game means that the game is actually negative-sum rather than zero-sum so it's possible for blind battles to be -EV for everybody (this is also why you should generally chop at small stakes even if you're an experienced HUHU player). The part where you fold to a steal is far more important than the part about tightening your own steal range, because if the blinds fold you don't pay any rake.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt
Thoughts?
it depends
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 01:46 PM
Bob, you recommend widening from the baseline opening percentage (yours is 40%) based on how bad the blinds are. In this spot the overriding thing we are looking for are tight blinds, right? In my experience the most common result of a raise with bad or average players in the blind is sb fold and bb call. I think like xhad was saying this might be a lose lose for both players.

Xhad, good point about poker being a negative sum game with rake. I agree that defending bb to a raise is a more important situation to consider this concept. Do you think it is a good idea to deduct the rake when considering whether or not to defend? For instance, in no rake games we would be getting 3:1 on the call, in 4 8 game 2:1.

BBB, what does it depend on? Do you think raising top third from the button might be in the ball park versus unknowns or average players in a high rake small stakes game?
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 01:50 PM
it depends on how foldy the two guys in the blinds are. always having static ranges is going to hamper your lhe growth. one third sounds quite low as a default. granted, it isn't folded around to the button very often in these games.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-06-2013 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt
Bob, you recommend widening from the baseline opening percentage (yours is 40%) based on how bad the blinds are. In this spot the overriding thing we are looking for are tight blinds, right? In my experience the most common result of a raise with bad or average players in the blind is sb fold and bb call. I think like xhad was saying this might be a lose lose for both players.
It comes down to the age old question, "how much is position worth?" Against good players, you're right. It's lose lose. Just be sure to look out for the exceptions instead of following rigid guidelines. Put a top pair+ donker in the big blind and 97o becomes playable imo. Put a showdown bound super passive fish in the big blind and I'm looking for reasons to play suited hands, and any K. I know the standard line is to c bet 100%, but against fish I don't. I take lots of free cards and bet for value. Put a spazz in the big blind and a nit in the small blind and I'm playing a ton of hands. I might be losing money preflop but I think I can make it up postflop and then some.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-07-2013 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhad
This isn't talked about much, but the rake in a poker game means that the game is actually negative-sum rather than zero-sum so it's possible for blind battles to be -EV for everybody (this is also why you should generally chop at small stakes even if you're an experienced HUHU player). The part where you fold to a steal is far more important than the part about tightening your own steal range, because if the blinds fold you don't pay any rake.
This.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-09-2013 , 04:48 PM
I play in a game with a $2 drop once the pot is opened and $5 drop once the opening bet is called.

So, in a 4-8 game, you're essentially trying to steal the BB's sb. So I was always looking for about 2/3 equity (67%) against once random hand and about 45% equity against two random hands.

In my 8-16 game, I'm stealing more liberally. I want about 60% equity against one random hand and about 40% vs two randoms.

Comparing these guidelines vs a recent hand where I raised 87s on a BTN steal against a BB defender. I now see I've got only 48 equity against a random hand. So I obviously need to rethink my BTN stealing range in this game. Yikes.

Rethinking this range for 8-16, my BTN steal range should probably be something more like:

55+/A2s+/K7s+/Q8s+/J9s+/T9s+/A5o+/K8o+/Q9o+/JTo+.

Last edited by bump86; 01-09-2013 at 05:07 PM.
Stealing in small stakes games Quote
01-13-2013 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump86
I play in a game with a $2 drop once the pot is opened and $5 drop once the opening bet is called.

Rethinking this range for 8-16, my BTN steal range should probably be something more like:

55+/A2s+/K7s+/Q8s+/J9s+/T9s+/A5o+/K8o+/Q9o+/JTo+.
This looks tight for 8/16. You should have at least Ax, 22, more sexy suited connectors in there. (but if you find yourself opening a lot in LP, maybe there's a better looser game to find?)

For 3/6, my rake is pretty high - so my button opening range is correspondingly tight: 66, A8, A2s, any big suited 8.
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01-13-2013 , 12:29 PM
your image
your position
the blinds tendancies
your cards
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01-13-2013 , 09:50 PM
How well you play post flop.
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