Interesting spot for review.

2 limps, I limp QTo (MP), 6ish to the flop. (preflop is a bit loose)

Flop: 89T (rainbow)

EP bets, 1 call, I call, 2+ calls. 4-5 to turn.

Turn: 2 (brings heart draw)

EP bets, a call, I raise, guy to my left is all-in, next guy is all-in, EP tanks and folds, guy to my right calls.

River: T

Guy to my right checks, I bet, he folds. MHIG.

When the hands get flipped up, EP looks clearly flustered and I surmise he folded Tx w/ better kicker for fear of straight. My plan on turn was to raise and fold to 3/b, thinking even opponents w/ 67 and 7J may not 3ball for fear of QJ, though this might not be accurate. What is the standard decision on the flop and turn? My thoughts on flop were that raising wasn't gonna knock out a lot of draws. My turn raise was designed to knock out stuff like QK/A9/Qx/7x/god forbid two pair.

Pf is meh.

Flop> I raise. We have the toppest pair and a gutshot. Lots of cards will kill our hand/action on the turn. The J being the worst.

Turn> after not raising the flop, i like raising here, but I dont want KQ and the likes folding. I definately dont want to knock out worse pairs, i only want to charge them.

7x has 4 outs. 4 of th eouts he might think he has, give us a higher staright and he might spew vs us.

I also wouldnt fold to a 3bet. I would agree that we are behind, but we have a minimum of 4 outs to the nuts.

Also I am amazed if anybody folds a 10 on the river for 1 bet in a big pot. Especially if they they have you outkicked.

pf is way loose. from the button this would be ok. from the cutoff after some limpers maybe.

but if you're gonna play QTo then at least maximize your equity with it when you do get a favorable flop. you're all over this board, i can't see any reason not to raise the flop.

as played it worked out okay by getting to raise the turn i guess, but in the future raise the flop because you can't guarantee that EP will still bet into the field on the turn, and if he does then there's a reasonable chance that he has you beat.

anyway i doubt he folded a ten. only a nit would fold a ten here, and i don't think he's a nit, because any ten that a nit would limp from EP has some sort of draw to go with it and is seeing a river card for sure.

i think this play is better with ATo.

well ironically, if the action had been UTG bets, guy to my right raises, I would fold a ten. I likely fold two pair as well, unless I think raiser is capable of raising with worse. Game is full of loose passives; turn raises are nuts almost always.

So everyone votes raising flop? Because we have the gutter to go with it? I guess I wanted a better guage of what my opponents held; if I raise flop, straights will wait to 2bet me on the turn. But if I raise turn, weak straight get scared and end up only calling, while QJo specifically wakes up and I try to make a hero fold.

Sry, that was a bit jumbled. Gonna go play another session now.

pf is fine, we have a decent hand after 2 bad limpers

plan of raisefolding on turn with outs to the nuts i dislike

I think you played every street fine.

Preflop is fine after a couple limpers. Flop is kind of scary that EP donks into a huge field, but you obviously are not folding and I don't mind waiting until the turn where your equity will change dramatically. Turn raise I like -- you're still ahead of random Jacks (J9/J8/KJ) and have decent outs against some two pair combos (T8/98) as well as the gutshot to a decent straight. You also occasionally fold out a better hand (AT/KT). Probably one of the few spots where I'm checking the river UI.

are you playing all offsuit broadways here? probably raising AT and KQ?

it was situational. I was getting ready to muck, then realized that the two players next to me pay off so much to the point that not opening up my range was giving up a ton of equity. I normally fold JTo/QTo here, limping in behind with two cards higher than a jack, raising only AJo+, KQs+. I didn't want to bloat the pot w/ something like KJo/ATo, as there were more loose passives after me that would call. KJs/KTs/QJs would be close, and I think raising or limping in behind is fine. I'm raising AJ/ATs for the most part.

I dump this preflop with lottsa players still behind us to act. In LP I'm limping along.

I think I raise the flop and re-evaluate on the turn. Our hand could be good here plus we've got the gutshot to perhaps bail us out.

GcluelessnoobG

I'm surprised at the respected posters saying PF is fine. My live VPIP is probably a bit higher than most of you and I'd muck without much thought (maybe that's the problem)

I muck QTo routinely especially from the position you're in. But if you see value in it in that the two limpers will pay you off when you hit I guess it's OK. The problem I have with it is that it gets me into trouble too often and leads to tough decisions many times on every street (as in this hand).

I like the way you played it though. When I first read that you called the flop bet I was thinking FAIL. But seeing the turn card and then raising if a favorable card falls is good I think as long as you're pretty sure the flop bettor will bet again. I think the way you played it very well could have forced weaker thinking players (possibly like me) to fold a T with a better kicker. If they're thinking (and I assume you're image is strong) - they're likely thinking there's no way you'd play any hand like that (waiting until the turn to raise) other than QJ.

thats a very polite way of putting it.

preflop i usually fold but at a loose passive table, you can get away with a limp... postflop is easier against this lineup. limping isn't a default play.

i like postflop play to add variety to your game but i tend to raise the flop for value/etc. multiway pot, buy position, fold out those mystery hands which may contain something that gets good odds if you call.

i mean, we have two bad dudes who limped, and we have a playable bigcard hand, and some more bad dudes will probably limp behind. i don't see how we can fold here. our hand is at least as 'good' as 33 or 98s, both of which we'd play here

I like this play....on the flop you were right to just call....a raise would just juice the pot and compel the first to players to now likely see it to the river. By raising the turn...now you have a chance of getting more hands to fold as a turn raise looks more like a made str8. Still this is a scary flop...and i advocate folding these cards pre flop to avoid situations when your not sure if your ahead or behind. You call down when your behind and just check when your actually ahead out of fear of a better hand is not the way to make money.

My problem is that too often we are dominated by someone in front or behind who didn't even have the courtesy to raise to let us know we were in trouble. If a Q flops we bet the whole way and get called by CO who never raised with his KQ because "I thought you had AQ." If we do win with one pair it's often a small or middling pot. QTo puts us in more tough spots that allow us to make FTOP misakes.

I'd much rather have 33 or 98s in this spot. They can make big and/or disguised hands and we aren't nearly as likely to pay off if we make just one pair.

That said, I'm not vehemently against it. Put me in the CO (or HJ under the right circumstances (another limper or two, good reads on most of the players in front, behind, and blinds) and I'll join the party.

pre is close, prob marginally -EV. I'm relying on the two stations to my right to swing to a +EV decision, along w/ hoping that I can get away from a 2nd best hand postflop if need be.

Swiftage-What limit is this btw? 4/8, 6/12 or?

Obv we want to play as many pots vs bad players as possible within reason.

Honestly, this is a spot where I might be more inclined to raise PF or fold it rather than just limp along. But this is more of a style thing for me personally. That is not to say that I havent just limped along with it. I never feel that comfy tho playing it this way. Probably more of the MikeL. influence in my style I think(less limping and more raising in general). I normally play pretty tight up front so my EP/MP opening raises tend to get a lot of respect. In this spot in my game I play, I tend to get more folds after my PF raises. Not sure tabout your game though.

pf is fine, if we have players without a penchant for coldcalling behind us i'd even raise.

in an unraised pot i'd prob just raise on the flop. the board hit alot of draw+pair kind of hands, we may get some folds that will be to our benefit, we have a few outs if behind, and it may give us more options on the turn.

Meh, I'd much rather have 33 here. First, it's insanely easy to play 33 postflop, and second, it's insanely easy to maximize our equity with 33 postflop whereas with QT it ain't (and this hand is a perfect example of that).

GinsanelyeasyG

i think both hands play differently, and enjoy fairly different scenarios. 33 is an implied odds hand that would love more players to enter padding the pot. QTo is basically a reverse-implied odds hand that would prefer fewer opponents to increase the likelihood of it's pair value and decrease the holdings to draw against it. if i had 33 i'd limp, if i had QTo i'd probably raise, and this is pretty much why.

of course, varying circumstances can change the relative value of each action, but in general this is my train of thought.

if you want to limp and encourage a multiway pot, 33 is probably equally or slightly more profitable than QT.

Your reasoning for raising QTo makes sense. However, this is a small stakes live game; you're gonna have one or two cold callers come along behind you plus the big blind. QTo in a 5+ handed pot for 2bets each ain't my idea of a good time.

I am also in the preflop fold mode. After tracking 5K live hands, I found QT to be my biggest loser; which may make it nuetral ev in the hands of a good player. Now that you are in the hand, raise the flop.

As played it seems to have worked out for you . It appears that you limped with QJ and slowplayed the nut flop. If this read was correct it is possible that you did, in fact, win the hand because of your slow play and aggression.

Good going but I still think the flop raise was better trying not to be results oriented. There are too many draws that could beat you. Protect this hand while you can.

I am still trying to figure out how a one card straight can be the nutz.