MP1: 55/1.5/0.5 ~60 hands
MP2: 55/6/0.7 ~60 hands
MP3: 28/6/1 ~40 hands

Multitabling so reads a bit scant, I think I saw MP1 not raise AK once after one limper.


A simple question: do we cap or not?

I'm sure MP1 and MP2 have their usual limping trash. And MP3 seems to be able to think a bit at least so I put him on a weakish multiway pot hand. So I raise for value with my probable equity edge.

After MP3 3-bets I'm in WTF -mode. He is in all likelihood pumping the pot so I probably have the best hand now - but is it good enough to cap OOP to 4-way pot (MP1&2 are coming along anyway most of the time)?

Poker Stars Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $2/$4 10 players

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is SB with A J
3 folds, MP1 calls (1.5:1), MP2 calls (2.5:1), MP3 calls (3.5:1), 2 folds, Hero raises, BB folds, MP1 calls (6:1), MP2 calls (7:1), MP3 3-bets, Hero ??

In general, I don't think it matters much whether you call or cap. In this situation, however, you've already raise with a pot equity edge (by my calculation, about eight percent) once and raising again is unlikely to produce any folds. Plus, I don't think your equity edge here is strong enough for a re-raise. Call and hope?

Also, if MP3 is the kind of player who would raise his strong preflop hands, your read is more likely to be correct because he likely would've already raised with stronger holdings than "weakish multiway" holdings.

If MP3 is likely to bet the flop if you don't cap, then you have a good shot at being able to protect your hand if you hit by charging the other two players two bets cold.

Yes, I guess this is pretty close either way.

I probably have the best hand, although especially the MP1 and MP2 could be in there with a small pocket pair. So in that sense capping would be good because our equity probably is more than our fair share preflop.

Capping might drop either MP1/2 out although it isn't very likely. In a pot that is getting big it would be a good result.

The problem is that the flop is going to be 4-way most of the time, we are OOP, and the pot is big. We have to hit to win this pot. One of the villains will in all likehood hit the board good enough to hang on to showdown. If we cap and then check the flop when we miss our hand is more or less out in the open and we are drawing thin to OCs.

I agree about the point PokerLikeItsProse made that it might be easier to protect the hand if we call and MP3 c-bets the flop.

However, I don't think that will happen too often: his most likely holding is good multiway drawing hand that benefits from taking a free card.

On the other hand, villains have seemed quite passive. I think if just call they are more likely to give us a free card on the flop than if we cap and then check (a sing of weakness even these guys might want to attack at).

As the pot is big I guess choosing a line that has a chance maximizing our chances of winning is the best option here. In this spot I think it is calling and hoping to get lucky.

I don't generally raise AJo from the SB after multiple limpers in a full ring game. As played I would just call the 3 bet. I suspect both of these decisions are close.

I raised it here because two of the limpers are really bad and will pay me off nicely if I hit. Third limper hadn't exactly inspired any fear either. Agreed, probably close either way.

I think I want him to have the initiative after the flop.

So we can check to him, and then checkraise into the field if we like the flop. If we cap, we probably are leading the flop most of the time, and everyone is going to get better than 15-1 to peel to the turn. The kinds of hands that AJ makes, aren't really going to want that much action to the turn, so I think smooth calling the flop, and trying to checkraise a favorable flop is the best approach.

For the same reasons, I frequently don't push this equity edge preflop, I would rather have it be incorrect for my opponents to chase my one pair hand postflop, so I like keeping the pot small with two big offsuit cards, to give them a foldable situation postflop.

Thanks for your comments.

To summarize,

1.
AJo doesn't necessarily have enough equity in the first place to raise it, or that at least the benefits of being able to protect a smaller pot better outweigh forgoing the edge. This is basically a TPGK type hand that doesn't like much company on the flop and esp on the turn.

2.
Same thing applies to cap or call question. Benefits of being able to protect the hand better outweigh the possibly lost equity here.

I like raising more than calling:
You and MP3 have an equity-edge over MP1 and MP2. By raising, you enlarge this edge for both of you. If you or MP3 will win the pot, you will win a bigger one than if not raised. And because you both have an equity-edge, one of you will win the pot more often than M1 or MP2 will. So I think raising is best.

I see only one situation in which I dont like raising: if you put MP3 on AA. In this case, the equity from MP3 over you is too big so your edge over MP1 and MP2 equity doesn't matter much.

I'm confident MP3 doesn't have AA here like at least 95% of the time. There were two bad limpers already in the pot so he was getting action already, no need to slowdown then.

Usually, AA is open-limped - reraised from early position in fear of only winning the blinds otherwise, i.e. in a tight table. This is not such a situation.

Agreed, raising against AA would be folly but you shouldn't put Villains on that tight hand ranges, you just don't usually have enough information to do that.

I also don't put him on AA normally. Just wanted to mention the possibility.

Ok, misunderstood your base line point a bit which was to raise this for value.

You do see some weird lines with AA every now and then but this would very weird indeed.

I'm pretty confident this kind of line mostly is a hand that plays well multiway and likes to have control postflop and take free cards if needed when in position - which MP3 has in this hand.

Grunch:

How good are you going to feel with an A high flop OOP against 4 players? After paying 4bets?
How about a J high flop?
Fold.
Edit:
Oops, I guess I missed your bet. Hmmm. Sucks to have AJo OOP against 4 players. Nobody's folding so call. The pot's big enough on the flop that trying for a CR is interesting if you get a flop you like and you're sure the villain will bet it.
God I hate AJo. With a passion.