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Page 33 of 138

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Last

09-01-2016 , 12:54 PM

#801

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterbeer

A hand like 84s is easy to play postflop.

If we flop a flush draw or OESD we can win a big pot.

Hand reading 101

Quote

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09-01-2016 , 12:56 PM

#802

ChocolateMoo

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 846

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

I agree on the first point

The second point is wrong. When old people raise UTG in 4-8, KQo is in so much trouble.

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You missed the 2nd point. It's about assigning a range, not a specific hand. We then stove KQo against that range to aid us in deciding if a call is profitable.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 01:00 PM

#803

ChocolateMoo

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 846

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterbeer

I think I come in with a worse price. A hand like 84s is easy to play postflop. Unless there are aggro blinds, I think we should limp in on the button with this as much as we can. If we flop a flush draw or OESD we can win a big pot. If we flop nothing we lose .5BB. Yes, we could also flop bottom pair, two pair, middle pair, top pair, etc... but if we are playing in a game where this many people limp pre flop we should be able to play this hand well enough vs them post flop. OTB, i think i would play this with 3 limpers, especially if they are very bad players.

I want to add that another consideration is the quality of our opposition. The worse they are postflop, the more hands we can play profitably on the BTN. Also, the more propensity our opposition like playing suited cards, the more inclined we should be to fold our baby suited cards.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 01:24 PM

#804

bitterbeer

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Hand reading 101

356 and the like still qualify, no? Like Hip pointed out we aren't drawing to the nut which is one of the downsides but still open ended.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 01:27 PM

#805

bitterbeer

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocolateMoo

I think the more passive the opponents, the better. Obviously if you are in a game where people are limping a lot that bodes well. Having position on loose passive players can be very profitable. You are more likely to maximize profit and minimize losses when coolered.

Versus loose aggro players I think I might fold it more often. They can put you in tough spots and charge you a lot while you might be drawing to 2nd best at the same time.

Last edited by bitterbeer; 09-01-2016 at 01:48 PM.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 04:12 PM

#806

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterbeer

356 and the like still qualify, no? Like Hip pointed out we aren't drawing to the nut which is one of the downsides but still open ended.

gutshot =/= OESD

Quote

09-01-2016 , 04:52 PM

#807

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 25,459

That's a double gutshot, but still not as good as OESD because neither straight is the nuts and one is only playing one card from your hand.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 06:42 PM

#808

Brad Childress

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,129

356 is not a double gutshot lol, but it also isn't a credit to 84s as you only need one card (of course getting to 8 high when a 7 drops helps).

Pretty nitty discussion.

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Quote

09-01-2016 , 07:33 PM

#809

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,577

84s highly playable on the btn in a limped pot, the biggest issue is facing additional bets from the blinds (which could be raised again from a limper)

Quote

09-02-2016 , 12:24 AM

#810

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocolateMoo

You missed the 2nd point. It's about assigning a range, not a specific hand. We then stove KQo against that range to aid us in deciding if a call is profitable.

No I understand your point

Their range is AA-QQ

GL with KQo vs that

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Quote

09-02-2016 , 12:26 AM

#811

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducky Medwick

Those were my thoughts exactly, when I folded. I put her on a very narrow range, which I thought would dominate KQ. I could see the flop coming K or Q high, and me paying off all the way with a worse kicker. It did cross my mind I'd call if it was suited, but not sure if that adds too much more value when the pot is only 3 handed.

Of course the flop came AJT rainbow, so that was annoying (but is immaterial to the question).

What did old lady have?

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Quote

09-02-2016 , 03:10 AM

#812

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

7 limps to me on the BTN, what do I do with these hands?

A4o, T7o, J2s

Last edited by rodeo; 09-02-2016 at 03:19 AM.

Quote

09-02-2016 , 10:12 AM

#813

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

I'm limping A4o and T7o, probably folding J2s

With A4o I'm really just hoping to flop a wheel gutshot draw or trip 4s

Quote

09-02-2016 , 11:17 AM

#814

LHELHELHE

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

7 limps to me on the BTN, what do I do with these hands?

A4o, T7o, J2s

I fold all 3.
I over limp all KXs, all suited connectors, suited 1 and 2 gappers.

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Quote

09-02-2016 , 12:58 PM

#815

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHELHELHE

I fold all 3.
I over limp all KXs, all suited connectors, suited 1 and 2 gappers.

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but its going to be 10 handed and you have the button.

literally 7 people limped in front of you

Quote

09-02-2016 , 01:08 PM

#816

LHELHELHE

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 165

Yeah I understand the scenario being discussed. I still fold the 3 said hands.

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Quote

09-02-2016 , 01:19 PM

#817

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

I should've said "6 limpers to me." I never play in 10 handed games.

Quote

09-02-2016 , 02:24 PM

#818

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 25,459

Personally I would always still fold all of those hands. Would call with the hands LHELHELHE mentioned.

Quote

09-02-2016 , 02:43 PM

#819

Man of Means

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,472

I like the suitedness best in a family limped pot, and would take A4o over T7 which is almost complete rubbish. Still folding all 3, but could be tempted by J6s, and suited Qx

Quote

09-02-2016 , 02:48 PM

#820

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

you can flop a bunch of weak/good draws even with the weaker hands.

if you are playing in a game with 6-7 limpers before the button, you want to add hands on the button.

T7o can flop OESE to the nuts, two pair, trips,

J2s I can see an argument that it's just a nothing hand, but with A4o, you can flop a wheel gutshot and the pot is already huge

Quote

09-02-2016 , 03:45 PM

#821

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHELHELHE

I fold all 3.
I over limp all KXs, all suited connectors, suited 1 and 2 gappers.

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This is the correct answer. These hands are easy folds in the situation I've described. They all play terribly in big multiway pots and suffer from major RIO. Just like 84s, which is also a fold.

Quote

09-02-2016 , 04:45 PM

#822

Montrealcorp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 19,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodeo

This is the correct answer. These hands are easy folds in the situation I've described. They all play terribly in big multiway pots and suffer from major RIO. Just like 84s, which is also a fold.

+1 imo

Quote

09-02-2016 , 04:46 PM

#823

Brad Childress

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,129

Probably the first time rodeo has folded pf in this thread

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Quote

09-02-2016 , 04:52 PM

#824

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Childress

Probably the first time rodeo has folded pf in this thread

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Lol.

I don't always fold pre flop when many players limp to me on the button, but when I do, it's with ****ty hands that have playability and RIO issues.