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08-28-2016 , 07:08 PM

#776

bruce

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,320

Folding~=Reraising>Calling

Quote

08-28-2016 , 09:30 PM

#777

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Just fold 77 there.

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08-28-2016 , 10:26 PM

#778

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

Just fold 77 there.

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We finally agree.

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08-29-2016 , 04:45 AM

#779

ptrylb

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Tag opens in LJ, folded to Loose passive Reg on button who calls, folded to me on BB.

Should I be calling all suited hands? If not, what should I be cutting out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

Calling with 93s in a three handed pot there is bad.

I'd call with any two suited against LJ OR & CC unless PFR is unusually tight (let's say 12% - 14 %) and/or CC is taggish bad player. In both of those cases I might fold some small amount of suited hands, but I'd still call with 93s.

Small amount of suited hands = 92s, 83s-82s, 73s-72s, 62s, 52s, 42s, 32s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLBlow

1) Do we call 6-9o in the BB getting 7-1?

does the answer change depending on if we close the action or not?

2) folds to CO who raises, sb calls, do we call in the BB with 9-7o

#1. I would, if it's against standard CO OR (= 35%) & CC, though this is the bottom of my range here. I wouldn't call against a limp and CO IR.

#2. Yes, this is not close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

20-40 9 handed game. UTG+1 raises. Haven't played with him much but he appears to be TAG. I have pocket 7's on button. Both blinds do not liberally defend. What's my best play? I can make decent arguments for all three choices.

I'd fold.

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08-29-2016 , 05:06 AM

#780

monikrazy

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,073

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

I'd normally call here but I am interested in hearing more about why folding is better. I do think this is highly dependent on how strong a player evaluation we give and how well hero reads hands/tells postflop.

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-29-2016 at 05:23 AM.

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08-29-2016 , 01:07 PM

#781

Ducky Medwick

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 122

$4/8 game. Current hand is a kill, so $8/16. I am in $4 big blind. Loose passive UTG lady raises it to 16. Ultra loose button (who will and does call anything, raised or not), calls 16 cold. I have KQ off suit. Is this a fold or a call? Does it matter that I only had $4 in and had to call $12? Or is it not much difference between only having to call $4, in a non-kill pot. I folded because while UTG lady was loose, she hadn't raised much, so I put her on a range that tended to dominate KQ. But when ultra loose button calls (and his range is literally wide enough for any two cards), does this pad the pot enough to justify a call? Thanks.

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08-29-2016 , 02:38 PM

#782

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

Because they are raising in EP, they figure to have a strong hand. With 77, you are going to be playing HU (if you 3bet) vs. a better range than 77.

You simple are going to have to fold if you face any resistance. Since you figure to have two bigger cards most of the time, bigger than 77.

Mainly, the pot is small, your hand kind sucks, they raise in EP.

If that same guy raises, and 3 people cold call, then I'm calling trying to spike a set.

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08-29-2016 , 02:57 PM

#783

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21,095

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducky Medwick

Who was the killer, and have they acted already? How much total money is on the pot when it gets to you?

Quote

08-29-2016 , 03:22 PM

#784

Ducky Medwick

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 122

Sorry--- I messed up the action. Killer was button. So he didn't call 16 cold, he called 8 after first posting 8 for the kill. SB folded. So, 38 chips in the pot, and 12 more for me to call.

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08-29-2016 , 03:45 PM

#785

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducky Medwick

Sorry--- I messed up the action. Killer was button. So he didn't call 16 cold, he called 8 after first posting 8 for the kill. SB folded. So, 38 chips in the pot, and 12 more for me to call.

Run KQ vs AA.
U need around 30% equity to call.
If you dont have 30% vs AA , had KK and calcute , repeat till u get 30%..

I am pretty sure for not calling KQ, you will need to be facing a very nitty range ..

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08-29-2016 , 04:34 PM

#786

TheHip41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducky Medwick

Sorry--- I messed up the action. Killer was button. So he didn't call 16 cold, he called 8 after first posting 8 for the kill. SB folded. So, 38 chips in the pot, and 12 more for me to call.

when old people raise in EP in a kill pot at 4/8

KQo is literally the worse hand you can have.

Ok not literally the worst, but it's is getting crush by old people EP raises at 4/8

The fact you have to call 1.5 big bets and not just .5BB makes it an even easier fold.

If it's suited I would call, but when old ppl raise UTG, just get the f out of the way with unsuited, dominated, garbage

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08-29-2016 , 04:35 PM

#787

TheHip41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

old people raising in EP in a kill pot at 4-8 = nitty range

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08-29-2016 , 05:32 PM

#788

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,485

Yes but it need to be "very" nitty to not attain 30% equity, we do have the BU who c/c, if we hit a good flop we should get paid pretty big.

Ps: btw u call kqs but not kqo, the difference is like 2-3% equity

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08-29-2016 , 05:32 PM

#789

Ducky Medwick

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 122

Those were my thoughts exactly, when I folded. I put her on a very narrow range, which I thought would dominate KQ. I could see the flop coming K or Q high, and me paying off all the way with a worse kicker. It did cross my mind I'd call if it was suited, but not sure if that adds too much more value when the pot is only 3 handed.

Of course the flop came AJT rainbow, so that was annoying (but is immaterial to the question).

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08-30-2016 , 02:54 PM

#790

TheHip41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

you won't get paid big when you hit with KQo

thats exactly the probably

Flop is Q93r

You check raise, get three bet. now you are losing.

Or you check raise and they call down with AA

When you spike top pair and are STILL a huge dog vs their range, it's time to fold.

KQs is different, you can flop a flush draw vs two people

You can fold KQs PF too, you are still up against AA/KK/QQ almost 100%

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08-30-2016 , 02:56 PM

#791

TheHip41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducky Medwick

at your normal 4/8 game, when old people raise, they have JJ+ and AK.

Unless you have a read they will raise hands like AJ or 88, KQ is absolutely getting smoked by Old Man River utg raising range.

To other poster. I don't care how much equity you have. when you konw they have AA, just fold.

(when they raise in this spot, they have AA)

Quote

08-30-2016 , 09:55 PM

#792

Biggle10

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 2,993

Live 3/6. 84s on the button, playable if everyone limps in? If yes, how many before we don't play it.

Quote

08-31-2016 , 01:33 AM

#793

rodeo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggle10

Live 3/6. 84s on the button, playable if everyone limps in? If yes, how many before we don't play it.

never playing that hand outside the blinds with one exception, if it folds to me on the BTN and both blinds are passive nits, then i'd raise. but that never happens, so i wouldn't play that hand outside of the blinds.

Quote

08-31-2016 , 12:22 PM

#794

ChocolateMoo

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 846

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

To other poster. I don't care how much equity you have. when you konw they have AA, just fold.

This is awful advice.
1. If there's a million dollars in the pot, and it's $12 for you to call, you should be fist pump calling with ATC.

2. Putting people on one specific hand with 100% frequency is ludicrous, especially preflop. Yes, kill will narrow ranges somewhat.

Quote

08-31-2016 , 04:22 PM

#795

asmitty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggle10

Live 3/6. 84s on the button, playable if everyone limps in? If yes, how many before we don't play it.

Yes, it's fine to overlimp unless you know for a fact that one of the blinds will raise. I need 5 limpers in front of me to play this. I would also raise OTB if folded to me most of the time unless the blinds are especially tough or sticky.

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08-31-2016 , 06:51 PM

#796

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmitty

Yes, it's fine to overlimp unless you know for a fact that one of the blinds will raise. I need 5 limpers in front of me to play this. I would also raise OTB if folded to me most of the time unless the blinds are especially tough or sticky.

I just think the bold part is bad advice.
i just think vs any decent player it would be a mistake to try to steal with a hand this weak.
I would rather say it is fine to play this hand if the blinds are horrible or very passif, than ok.

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09-01-2016 , 07:44 AM

#797

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocolateMoo

I agree on the first point

The second point is wrong. When old people raise UTG in 4-8, KQo is in so much trouble.

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09-01-2016 , 07:46 AM

#798

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggle10

Live 3/6. 84s on the button, playable if everyone limps in? If yes, how many before we don't play it.

I'm limping in here getting 9-1 with the button. You will flop a flush draw or a gut shot or two pair or one pair and a back door flush draw enough.

If two of 7 folded in front of me I would fold

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09-01-2016 , 11:03 AM

#799

bitterbeer

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

I think I come in with a worse price. A hand like 84s is easy to play postflop. Unless there are aggro blinds, I think we should limp in on the button with this as much as we can. If we flop a flush draw or OESD we can win a big pot. If we flop nothing we lose .5BB. Yes, we could also flop bottom pair, two pair, middle pair, top pair, etc... but if we are playing in a game where this many people limp pre flop we should be able to play this hand well enough vs them post flop. OTB, i think i would play this with 3 limpers, especially if they are very bad players.

Quote

09-01-2016 , 11:47 AM

#800

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

3 limpers isn't enough for 84s mainly because we CANT flop and OESE

At least with 85s, you can flop a few more straight draws, and you can also have the nuts. with 84, when you have a straight, you never have the nuts. not a huge issue, but still there.

once 5 people limp, I agree with getting in there with way more suited hands.

still folding any suited low cards that can't make a straight, like T2s, 83s, 92s, 82s, etc

I'm playing all Kxs and Axs obv, Qxs down to about 7

i agree though, with all limpers at a bad table, you can loosen up.

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